UKPCO
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Topic URL: http://www.pestcontrolportal.com/snitz/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=345
Printed on: 13 Mar 2006
Topic:
Topic author: nobby
Subject: UKPCO Q. When is an organisation not an organisation?
Replies:
Posted on: 10 Mar 2006 20:17:10
Message:
A. When it has no published constitution, aims, or officers.
Anyone got anything to add?
Reply author: pestech
Replied on: 10 Mar 2006 20:29:04
Message:
yeah..........who stole the jam out of your donut?
Reply author: nobby
Replied on: 10 Mar 2006 20:38:37
Message:
You must be head of PR.
Reply author: ABPest
Replied on: 10 Mar 2006 20:41:57
Message:
Nobby, you are totally correct, the UKPCO is not an organisation in the true sense of the word !
It is a proposed future organisation.
Discussions are taking place between proposed future members about creating an organisation.
Adrian.
Reply author: nobby
Replied on: 10 Mar 2006 20:46:25
Message:
So what aims and constitution is being proposed?
A gathering of likeminded individuals to share experiences and learn from one another is a great idea, but another organisation is not needed. Why dont you use some of that enthusiasm and experience within one of the existing organisations and change the industry for the better rather than just de-value the little that the BPCA and NPTA already do.
By the way, welcome back!
Reply author: ABPest
Replied on: 10 Mar 2006 21:38:15
Message:
I've never been away, Nobby. How long have you been here?
There is a feeling in the industry that organisations funded by the big boys, the suppliers and manufacturers cannot represent the small guys in the industry ( this may or may not be true depending on your point of view ). So the small guys are getting together to see if they can represent themselves. The people involved hope to change the industry for the better and improve their chances of competing with the big boys.
Some have tried to influence other organisations without success. Not enough voting power. I tried to influence the BPCA over LA membership, but failed to have any impact, despite a lot of support, because a couple of big companies didn't want LAs in the BPCA.
Partly due to this representation, the CIEH set up the National Pest Advisory Panel, to advise the CIEH on matters apertaining to pest control and human health. Another succesful organisation, have you heard of it ?
Some of the organisations have also grown into businesses themselves with several employees and this also brings into question who they represent and why.
But at the end of the day, you do what you want to do, just as I do.
UKPCO has already created a loy of interest in a very short time, why do you think that is ?
Adrian.
Reply author: nobby
Replied on: 10 Mar 2006 23:03:29
Message:
A posting on your website suggests that companies with 8 or less employees will be eligible for �10 membership. I know of companies of that size that turn over nearly a million a year. If that is not large companies I dont know what is. Surely the NPTA is there for those smaller companies and one man bands. Why was there not a determined effort to change that organisation to better represent that sector of the industry? And yes, I have heard of the CIEH, which is another organisation which needs shaking up.
PS I've been here since 14 Nov 2005
Reply author: andyb
Replied on: 10 Mar 2006 23:43:55
Message:
which is another organisation which needs shaking up.
The 8 employees was a very early posting so you obviously are interested in the UKPCO. no-one or any organisation should feel at all threatened by the UKPCO.
The fact that we are striking up some fantastic ideas with Insurance underwriters and some very special terms with selected suppliers. The fact that we are setting out to increase the skills of the independent pester. The fact we are talking to each other, OK I will admit that some have moved from here and other forum sites to the UKPCO place and that they obviously don't want any changes to happen within this industry so they try to upset or belittle our efforts. Who care's. If only 4 or 5 of us get get better terms for our purchases and the same 4 or 5 continue to increase their knowledge in this very interesting subject, the knowledge will be shared with others if they can get their heads out of the sand, some of us will have gained from the experience. Yes maybe another organisation needs shaking up but it's not ours! The terms and conditions of being a part of the UKPCO are well underway, we have taken the time to be sure that knee jerk reactions to comments don't influence us, unlike many other organisations. Please dont think we feel that we are making out that we are in anyway better than what is available at the moment, but take it for one who was there at the start of the UKPCO things are going to change. Why not get on board, why dont the NPTA approach the UKPCO to see if the future members would like to become affiliated members of the NPTA. This could benificial to all. We have been contacted by a variety of people and businesses because they are not quite sure which way the industry is going and maybe the "New Boy's" will be a bit more dynamic and not just fall into line as the big boys say.
Just a quick and final note you are welcome to get involved. we are having a great time sharing ideas etc. I will let things rest now and please don't think that the UKPCO will rise to condemnation, we have agreed tonight"as a group" not get bothered by what is said about the UKPCO. Just remember when things start to pick up speed you were invited to get involved at the very beginning of what will become a good thing for the pest control industry.
ANDY B
Reply author: Jonathan Peck
Replied on: 11 Mar 2006 00:39:23
Message:
Nobby
There are several different organisations in the UK industry and each have different aims.
BPCA is the establishment pest control association. It is consulted by Government departments and agencies, it runs training courses which are recognised by industrial users and because it has been around so long, it has prime place in the industry. It has clout but has tended in past years to work slowly behind the scenes. Killgerm has always supported BPCA and indeed myself and two colleagues have been past presidents. Other colleagues have held positions on a number of its committees. Its membership is largely made up of companies and since it has some 300+ members and there are actually very few large pest control companies (companies with more than �1million of turnover) in the UK, it follows that many must be smaller companies.
NPTA was formed because many pest controllers wanted to be members in their own right of their own trade association. Membership is relatively cheap and it does offer some of the same services as the BPCA. However, it is not so active in negotiations with Government departments. We supported the establishment of the NPTA and will continue to do so in any way that we can.
The CIEH is not a trade association. It is a professional body under Royal Charter whose aim is to promote all aspects of environmental health. Once upon a time, most of its members worked for local authorities but this has now changed and today its members are environmental health professionals, who are increasingly employed in the private sector.
It has a National Pest Advisory Panel, whose task is to advise the CIEH on all matters to do with pest management. The CIEH then makes representations to Government departments and agencies, with a view to promoting specific aims. Members of the N-PAP are not representatives of any particular body but are individuals invited by CIEH to join the panel because of their specific knowledge and experience. Members of the N-PAP come from local authorities, private companies and academia. They work together on the N-PAP to ensure that pest management is on the CIEH radar screen and, in fact, are the most active expert advisory panel of the CIEH. We support the N-PAP because it has the best connections with public officials.
UKPRO is developing as a group of pest controllers with similar needs and attitudes. Its membership is identifying itself as people who want to work together to develop their skills and marketing expertise, so that they can expand their business interests. It is also developing as a buying group, which will bring its members advantages by combining their buying power and exchanging information freely on where the better deals are to be found. We support the UKPRO because we are impressed by their enthusiasm.
There can never be one single trade association because different parts of the industry and the people in it have different needs. Just as there can never be a single pest control company covering the whole industry.
Best wishes
Jonathan Peck
Killgerm Group
Reply author: nobby
Replied on: 11 Mar 2006 00:55:22
Message:
I am not suggesting that there should only be one organisation, or that what is happening with UKPCO is necessarily wrong - its just frustrating that there are a group of good people out there with fresh and sensible ideas who think that the way forward is to set up another organisation.
Andy, please dont think that this in anyway is belittling UKPCO. If the members put half as much effort into changing NPTA and BPCA we could have the industry we all want. I have a number of reservations about the setup, (eg when is independant not independant) and wonder who the officers are, and who has funded it so far. What usually happens in situations like this is that a few people do the bulk of the work. Why not push NPTA to negotiate discounts for members? Just for the record, I do want to see the industry change - for the better for all of us.
Could someone also clarify please, is it UKPCO or UKPRO?
Reply author: andyb
Replied on: 11 Mar 2006 07:28:38
Message:
IT is The UKPCO. I have funded it so far. The officers as you call them are so far Adrian Batty and Tony Baker, I am a helping hand when needed. We are in discussion over membership criterias and the way forward for us. We are taking time getting things sorted so we will only have to go back and review a few things in the future months. The situation with group buying has started to pay dividends. Two tonnes of grain bait have been taken from one supplier at a very good price per bag, this has been distributed to those that joined with the group purchase. The training has begun with a mole day on the Cotswolds where 20 people attended. The second day is on the cards for a vertebrate pest trapping day.
The general feeling within the group is that possibly the independants do get a raw deal with the present assoc. when we are sorted we will come to the BPCA and maybe the NPTA as a group, if we have a 20+ membership then maybe we will be taken notice of. To answer your other query what is an independant. So far we are made up of sole traders and couple of companies that have one or two more employee's. We don't have larger companies involved although we do have a good number of their employee's hovering on the side lines, many of these are disgruntled with what they are having to do to make the company target figures. Some emails or private messages are being sent to us to have a moan and groan about their work situation, maybe we will set a counciling service "Agony Andy" Maybe.
If you would like any further imformation or explanation don't hesitate to contact me. my number is 07976 516060.
ANDY B
Reply author: NickA
Replied on: 11 Mar 2006 10:02:16
Message:
Jonathan, re CIEH who is represented on N-PAP from private sector, Adrian I know but he is CIEH anyway, yourself but your a supplier.
I haven't seen any small local pest controllers invited to attend.
I feel it is always better to change from within,and if Tony Baker had put his effort into changing BPCA as he has on UKPCO things might be different.
Prevention for protection
Reply author: nobby
Replied on: 11 Mar 2006 11:39:35
Message:
Andy, if you all use the same paperwork and preparations how will any member be independant?
Great to get the debate out in the open.
Reply author: NickA
Replied on: 11 Mar 2006 11:50:04
Message:
Same paperwork, might be a good idea, "Acme Pest Control" as its own heading and phone numbers address followed by Member of UKPCO, then rest same as every one else no different from companies with multiple branches almost like a franchise.
Prevention for protection
Reply author: Bunny
Replied on: 11 Mar 2006 11:53:56
Message:
Nick the long term objectives of the UKPCO are different, this may be difficult to explain to you. In the event you have only met me once for 10 minutes and that was almost 4 years ago I am amazed at the level of knowledge you seem to have about me and my activities.
You have been invited on numerous occasions to join and take part in the project but have declined, so do not be so ready to knock the efforts of others that have a new approach. I am furthermore concerned about how you know about my membership details can you answer that?
And the one thing I can say with some confidence about your present attitude toward the UKPCO that based apon the information I have recieved about your own business portfolio if you spent less time on the various forums and spent it on selling your own services you may well have a better frame of mind. your constant badgering of other members of the forum are legend and tell more about your motives than any insult you may throw my way
Bunny (Tony Baker)for those that dont know me by now
Reply author: nobby
Replied on: 11 Mar 2006 12:01:04
Message:
Maybe Nick has a sideline as a private investigator!
Bunny, please accept that not all critism is a bad thing. What is happening here is that a debate is taking place about the merits of starting another organisation. Try not to let things get personal, and dont knock people who are not yet ready to commit to your gang. I am sure a simialar debate is taking place over on your site - its just that here, everyone can see it.
Reply author: NickA
Replied on: 11 Mar 2006 12:05:54
Message:
Have I missed something Tony,badgering hmmm, I'm making a living thank you but we may have different ideas about work.
I'm not knocking UKPCO, I was invited to join when it was a buying consortium and after discount.
My pricing must be right because I survive by making sure I do not have to rely on discounts to give me profit. Learnt that on BPCAs' Pricing for Profit course.
But it depends what we want out of life isn't it?
As for time on Fora no more than others.
From BPCA FORUM
On 09/11/2003 Tony wrote:
wayne, wayne, wayne,
C`mon now there was no offence meant, but you have made a habit out of offering your opinions on this forum on regular basis and fair play to you. if you get out of your tree because someone happens to offer an opinion contrary to your own you should consider not talking or communicating with anybody, as i very much doubt that everyone agrees with you, it would be a very boring world if they did
yours
Tony Baker
Prevention for protection
Reply author: Jonathan Peck
Replied on: 11 Mar 2006 12:20:37
Message:
Nick
You are wrong about the work of the N-PAP. It is not a trade association. It is an advisory panel of the CIEH.
To date, its projects have included guidance notes to local authorities about the role of pest management in protecting public health; guidance notes to Government departments and agencies about the control of mosquitoes in the event of a mosquito borne disease outbreak; an updated version of "Pests on the Menu" in 11 languages; a games programme on pest control for schools; and of course the initiation of the WHO report into urban pest management and public health. In addition, it has commissioned several surveys to find out more about pest management's role in public health.
All the N-PAP projects are based on the principles of pest management and being involved in them has nothing to do with the size of your employer.
I agree that change is best coming from within and it needs people to achieve it. I would be happy to propose you for election to the executives of either the BPCA or NPTA if you would like.
Perhaps the new director of BPCA (who, if rumour is correct, likes more...action) will make a difference!
Best wishes
Jonathan Peck
Killgerm Group
Reply author: NickA
Replied on: 11 Mar 2006 12:35:44
Message:
Jonathan never said N-PAP an Association your post said people from private sector.
Yes if rumour is correct agree the new man shoud be good at marketing, Look back in an earlier topic for the name.
I want to see changes as you know, but I'm willing to put my head over parapet as Tony has said I've too much time on my hands.
Funny what with sparrow catching, contracts, pest prevention, Highways work must be missing something.
Tony as your not a member of NPTA perhaps you should look at your website ?
http://www.alphakill.co.uk/
Prevention for protection
Reply author: Bunny
Replied on: 11 Mar 2006 13:11:19
Message:
website should have been removed have a word with Yell.com about that thanks Nick
Bunny
Reply author: andyb
Replied on: 11 Mar 2006 21:13:32
Message:
Bunny.
Sam is working on your new flash website he has asked me to apologise for not removing the old one. He didn't actually realise it could cause offence. It will be removed as soon as possible..
ANDY B
Reply author: NickA
Replied on: 11 Mar 2006 21:26:44
Message:
Hasn't caused offence, just that NPTA didn't have his standards as he has posted, but that site is in BPCA book of members and on BPCA web link,.
Was proud enough then to be a member?
Surprised no BPCA logo on old site.
Prevention for protection
Reply author: dennis
Replied on: 13 Mar 2006 09:05:06
Message:
Nick no offence mate, and I am not getting involved in any debate, but the fact that you can quote a post from nearly 3 years ago means you have either got a photographic memory or you need to get out more.
Regards
Dennis
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