| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Iain |
Posted - 26 Aug 2006 : 10:21:04
In the early 1980s I was part of a team that launched a revolutionary new product called Crackdown. The big target was an old product called Ficam W, which had a major share of the market. It was going to be a breeze...
Crackdown, apart from being a terrific brand name, was a revolutionary new formulation called a suspension concentrate. This meant that it gave great residuality without an obvious deposit. Ficam W had very poor residuality in comparison and left a chalky white, much more visible, deposit.
Ficam W was also a carbamate, which as a group was attracting some concerns about toxicity. There was then talk about users of carbamates having to have regular blood tests. Crackdown, on the other hand was one of the new synthetic pyrethroids, applied at incredibly low rates and with a very good comparative profile when it came to mammalian toxicity.
But what happened?
Twenty five years later that great name 'Crackdown' has become 'K-Othrine'  and which product rules the roost? You got it - Ficam W. OK it turned out that bendiocarb was the one carbamate that didn't need regular blood testing as it degrades so quickly in mammals, but it is still far more visible as a deposit and far less residual.
Why? I'm still baffled as to why Ficam W is still so popular.
Have you any suggestions?  |
| 16 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Iain |
Posted - 07 Sep 2006 : 17:29:11
Dusty,
As we've gone off the subject a bit, I'll start a new string on Oa2ki. |
| Dusty |
Posted - 07 Sep 2006 : 04:31:04
More info required on Oa2Ki please Iain. A google for Australia came up with nada. International google showed lots of vegan and organic sites but nothing with any substantial info.
Don't feed them, get Rid of them |
| Iain |
Posted - 06 Sep 2006 : 17:15:34
Whenever the word 'resistance' is used it is very easy to over-react, but the observations on your link do match those found recently by Clive Boase and his co-workers over here - except he also showed elvated levels of tolerance to bendiocarb as well.
No need for anyone to panic, however, as it probably simply means that the level of 'overkill' we have benefitted from in the past is now being cut back. All the more reason to 'be careful out there' with these bugs.
Just a thought - has anyone ever used Oa2ki against bed bugs? I ask for two reasons:
1. It's mode of action, stripping out the waxy layer on the insect cuticle, means that provided you can get it to the eggs, it will kill that stage as well - which may be a big bonus with bed bugs.
2. It may be more a appropriate product to use on a mattress. |
| Dusty |
Posted - 06 Sep 2006 : 01:00:13
Not too sure what to read into this just now,but perhaps the muffled sounds of alarm bells should be heard in the distance
http://www.pctonline.com/news/news.asp?ID=4439
Don't feed them, get Rid of them |
| Dusty |
Posted - 30 Aug 2006 : 23:35:22
Iain, bed bugs are not something I get asked to do all that often and my experiences are limited.
Because I was well aware of the fact that BB are not easy to control I accepted the general advice that was around and went straight to Ficam W. I also listened to Nick with his UK experience
It is a generally held belief in Australia that bendiocarb provides better results than SP's when it comes to BB's. In fact a draft code of practice on BB's just released suggests that bendiocarb may provide more effective results. The research group is highly respected and not likely to sell their soul, so it probably can be assumed they are on the ball.
http://medent.usyd.edu.au/bedbug/bed_bug_cop_draft_complete.pdf
As far as SP's go, Cislin (Deltamethrin) would without doubt, be the most frequently used insecticide used for interior applications. Low odor and quick knockdown with reasonably good residual are the major reasons for use. I guess price comes into play there somewhere too.
For external use, Bifenthrin is probably used more often than OP's these days for general pests. Being a pyrethroid makes it easier to market to those who have pesticide misgivings, and it works very,very well on a virtually all insect pests, including termites. It has three dilution rates which is also another bonus. For those who travel that road, generics make it a very cheap product. I prefer to pay the extra and use the original brand (Biflex) as it is more likely there will be some manufacturer support if the wheels fall off using it against termites.
Don't feed them, get Rid of them |
| NickA |
Posted - 30 Aug 2006 : 20:19:55
Brazillian wandering spider, for a major super market.
Working for co-operation ,not division between OUR Associations. |
| Iain |
Posted - 30 Aug 2006 : 19:43:01
Yet another apparent disadvantage (visible deposit) being turned into a benefit! Wonderful!
As for your thoughts on effectiveness against Germans, I have heard exactly the opposite from others. Crackdown great, Ficam useless.
It just goes to show that...well I'm not sure.
And thanks Nick for putting me right on spider control - but does anyone really treat for spiders in the UK? |
| Bigbully |
Posted - 30 Aug 2006 : 10:51:49
Iain - my preference for Ficam W against Crackdown is coloured from my experiences working in one particular central London hotel when I was a techie in the late 80's. The German cockroaches used to laugh at the crackdown sprays used on the tiled floor-service kitchens whereas good old FW knocked them silly.
As for leaving a residue - I remember being specifically instructed by the Hygiene Manager of one well known breakfast cereal/biscuit production plant to use Ficam W rather than Crackdown or others. This was so that the company EHO visiting the next day could see that treatment had been applied! Ahh the good old days!
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| NickA |
Posted - 30 Aug 2006 : 09:55:44
Spiders;
Ficam D, Tenopa, ULV 400/500 can all be legally used.
Working for co-operation ,not division between OUR Associations. |
| Iain |
Posted - 30 Aug 2006 : 07:50:27
Thanks for your input Dusty, it's always interesting to see how you guys approach similar problems. Where you do things in a different way it reminds us that there is often more than one solution to any particular problem.
You're right, spider work is not much of an issue here - ours are all pretty tame! In fact I can't think of an insecticide that could legally be used here for their control as the normal 'catch all' label phrase "...and other crawling insects" wouldn't really count.
I like the twist on the short residual life, turning what is normally a disadvantage into a benefit!
You refer to "...bedbugs being the exception." when describing Deltamethrin as the normal "...choice of poison." Would you care to elaborate further. Are you suggesting that this insecticide no longer works against bedbugs?
What you recommend against these pests? |
| Dusty |
Posted - 29 Aug 2006 : 13:44:58
My additional comments may not be all that relevant to UK as I understand that not much spiderwork is carried out.
Ficam W, being one of the few low odor formulations suitable for a hand sprayer is exceedingly useful for dealing with spiders. If SP's are used, sub-lethal doses tend to excite non webbing spiders and cause them to wander. OP's and carbamates dont over-excite them and will quickly gain control
Oddly enough, "Daddy long Legs" which are in fact Harvesters, and not spiders (although the average homeowners will argue that they are spiders) are not easily controlled with OP's and carbamtes, and SP's will handle the problem with ease.
The fact that Ficam W has a six week residual makes it useful where long term residual is not a desirable factor for the client (Some clients who are reluctant to have pesticides used on their properties seem more comfortable with the knowledge that Ficam W will fizzle out in a little over a month)
Ficam W is also a better proposition when used on non porous surfaces, as the chalky deposit tends to stick to glossy paint etc (have you ever tried to remove it from glass)
Useful too when rotation of AI is needed, as most other alternatives are smelly and not suitable for interior use.
The powder incidentally plays havoc with the rubber seals in hand sparayers, reducing the seal life dramatically due to its abrasive nature.
With all the praise for Ficam W, it is rarely used on general pests in Australia as most prefer SP's in their hand sprayers (Glorias)and Cislin {Deltamethrin} would without doubt be the choice of poison, bedbugs being the exception.
Don't feed them, get Rid of them |
| Dusty |
Posted - 29 Aug 2006 : 13:42:46
My additional comments may not be all that relevant to UK as I understand that not much spiderwork is carried out.
Ficam W, being one of the few low odor formulations suitable for a hand sprayer is exceedingly useful for dealing with spiders. If SP's are used, sub-lethal doses tend to excite non webbing spiders and cause them to wander. OP's and carbamates dont over-excite them and will quickly gain control
Oddly enough, "Daddy long Legs" which are in fact Harvesters, and not spiders (although the average homeowners will argue that they are spiders) are not easily controlled with OP's and carbamtes, and SP's will handle the problem with ease.
The fact that Ficam W has a six week residual makes it useful where long term residual is not a desirable factor for the client (Some clients who are reluctant to have pesticides used on their properties seem more comfortable with the knowledge that Ficam W will fizzle out in a little over a month)
Ficam W is also a better proposition when used on non porous surfaces, as the chalky deposit tends to stick to glossy paint etc (have you ever tried to remove it from glass)
The powder incidentally plays havoc with the rubber seals in hand sparayers, reducing the seal life dramatically due to its abrasive nature.
With all the praise for Ficam W, it is rarely used on general pests in Australia as most prefer SP's in their hand sprayers (Glorias)and Cislin {Deltamethrin} would without doubt be the choice of poison, bedbugs being the exception.
Don't feed them, get Rid of them |
| Iain |
Posted - 29 Aug 2006 : 07:45:16
There is no doubt that Ficam W is a good product that has stood the test of time and I accept all the comments made so far. But Crackdown was always, in my opinion, a far superior product. Far better activity, particularly against cockroaches, far better residuality and a virtually invisible deposit.
In its new guise, as K-Othrine granules, it is pre-measured, has no potential spill problems and no contaminated packaging issues, so it continues to be a far better product - but yes, it is more expensive.
Perhaps Ficam W, though an intrinsically inferior product is good enough in most instances and as it is cheaper offers acceptable value for money?
Perhaps, now that cockies are almost an endangered species, thanks to the highly effective baits we have, the big advantage that Crackdown had is not now a critical issue. Certainly as one of the last non-pyrethroids we have, Ficam will continue to be increasingly important to us - unless we've already over-used it....  |
| NickA |
Posted - 28 Aug 2006 : 19:48:01
Because it is easy to use, no measuring out.
Open packet then use, easy dosage rates. Good product support/literature. Works.
But then wasn't it originally made by Camco?
Working for co-operation ,not division between OUR Associations. |
| Bob Newey |
Posted - 28 Aug 2006 : 11:11:34
When I first came into the pest control business 18 months ago most of the people I picked the brains of said that Ficam W was the best so naturally this is what I went for, and have to say that I've found it does the job so it's what I've used the most.
I suppose that if something works then people are loathe to change even if a new product that becomes available looks to be better, and I'm afraid that I fall into that category too!
I don't think any amount of advertising will better a products endorsement and reputation and that's probably the reason Ficam W has remained the favourite. |
| Dusty |
Posted - 26 Aug 2006 : 15:24:11
Iain, if it is packaged similarly to the Australian product, price may very well be a significant reason.
Ten sachets for a a few pounds (A$40.00) makes it one of the cheapest pesticides around.The application cost is very high admittedly and ten sachets disappear very quickly, but the initial outlay is low.
Don't feed them, get Rid of them |
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