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pestguard1
Junior Member
United Kingdom
28 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Oct 2006 : 15:28:41
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I know Gin Traps were banned from use in 1958 ..........but are they illegal to sell?
There are a few listed on e bay , some are listed a "antique" yet some are listed as in new condition.
What`s to stop people from buying these to use ????
Brian |
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nigel
Senior Member
261 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2006 : 16:15:02
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quote:
Under Section 8(1) of the Pests Act 1954 it is an offence to:
Use or knowingly permit the use of an unapproved spring trap for the purposes of killing or taking animals (e.g. a gin trap, a form of spring trap with toothed jaws).
Use or knowingly permit an approved spring trap for animals or circumstances for which it is not approved for (e.g. a Fenn trap placed on a pole to catch birds of prey).
To sell, offer for sale, or possess any spring trap for such an unlawful purpose, as above.
Under this legislation it is not an offence to sell a gin trap for the purpose of collecting them, only if you sell it, knowingly, to someone who is going to use it......... |
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pestguard1
Junior Member
United Kingdom
28 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2006 : 16:35:14
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Thanks for that Nigel
Brian |
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Paul W
Junior Member
United Kingdom
22 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2006 : 20:16:33
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| I think they must be deactivated to be offered for sale,not totally sure on that tho. |
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vermincontrol
Member
United Kingdom
83 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2006 : 20:37:04
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we have funny laws in this country if something is illegal to use you can still collect it, it is illegal for kids to buy fags but not to smoke underage, weird law that one. As far as i know you can buy illegal items like the traps as long as they are sold on the understanding that they will not knowingly be used.
what is to say that the person who collects them has them stolen and then they are used, well my understanding is that the collector is in the clear as the items were stolen and not sold or loaned to the thief
gets complicated
Steve
It Has 2 Be Done Pest Control
www.ithas2bedone.co.uk
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pestguard1
Junior Member
United Kingdom
28 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2006 : 21:33:26
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These traps are so cruel ..........banning them in 1958 was the best thing they done .
As for this law that says it`s not illegal to sell them ........so long as they are not sold for use again .(how the hell does the seller know this) ........is to say the least.............. diabolical.........
I have been informed by the wildlife unit in Bristol that to sell them for collection/historical/antique pourposes they have to be de-activated so that they can no longer be used again .........they recomend that they be welded closed ..........just ban them from sale altogether would be the best solution.
Brian |
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vermincontrol
Member
United Kingdom
83 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2006 : 21:53:21
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i agree with you on that one
Steve
It Has 2 Be Done Pest Control
www.ithas2bedone.co.uk
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Gamekeeper
Senior Member
United Kingdom
116 Posts |
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pestguard1
Junior Member
United Kingdom
28 Posts |
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Gamekeeper
Senior Member
United Kingdom
116 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2006 : 10:05:58
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My God, that's asking for trouble - AND they took my name in vein 
Fid Def |
Edited by - Gamekeeper on 13 Oct 2006 10:06:29 |
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The Spotlight Kid
Member
66 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2006 : 23:25:19
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| Have to disagree with the general sentiments on this one. The Gin is part of the history and heritage of trapping and pest control and like many things that were once acceptable, time has since concluded that the Gin should be made illegal (quite rightly). However as a piece of historical pest control engineering it should be admired by all of us. I certainly have several rusty old examples of different designs and sizes which would certainly be ruined by being welded up. The magic and mystery of the old poachers can only be apreciated by setting and tripping the old beasty. Let's leave just a little magic ....... please ? |
Edited by - The Spotlight Kid on 14 Oct 2006 00:06:11 |
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pestguard1
Junior Member
United Kingdom
28 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2006 : 09:18:31
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quote:
Originally posted by The Spotlight Kid
Have to disagree with the general sentiments on this one. The Gin is part of the history and heritage of trapping and pest control and like many things that were once acceptable, time has since concluded that the Gin should be made illegal (quite rightly). However as a piece of historical pest control engineering it should be admired by all of us. I certainly have several rusty old examples of different designs and sizes which would certainly be ruined by being welded up. The magic and mystery of the old poachers can only be apreciated by setting and tripping the old beasty. Let's leave just a little magic ....... please ?
.........and if your traps should fall into the wrong hands (get nicked ) ........whats to stop them from being used again in the wild (unless they are de-activated )
.......................as for them being admired by all of use ..........I dont think so , these traps were used in a way that they were so indiscriminate to other animals ...........so whats wrong with getting these traps de-activated ............you can still collect them .........they will still look the same .........history will not be altered by getting them welded either open or closed .
I personaly think it`s totaly wrong to sell these traps to (shall we say )unscrupulouse people on the internet,that probable dont know anythink about the laws of this country.
Brian |
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The Spotlight Kid
Member
66 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2006 : 16:56:50
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| There is no legal requirement to de-activate Gins. It's just illegal to use them. A criminal will always be a criminal however difficult the nanny state tries to make it. Shotguns get stolen, sawn off and used in bank raids to threaten and kill people but we don't de-activate all our shotguns. Owning is legal and misuse by criminals will alsways go on. Still, hopefully our debate has educated a few ignorant people who may have bought but not realised that they couldn't use. |
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moley
New Member
10 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2006 : 20:31:38
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| we had better bad petrol cos someone might set a fire going with it , should we ban rat poison cos someone might poison a dog with it, should we ban guns , just in case someone robs a bank,do you get my point? |
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Dusty
Senior Member
Australia
335 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2006 : 21:53:17
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Strange how views change. For UK, prior to 1958, and Australia prior to late 60's, it wasnt considered cruel. I know in Australia it was considered essential to use them.
We had Rural Pastures Protection Board and inspectors did surveys of properties. If more than a certain amount of rabbits were noted per acre, owners were given three months to solve the problem.
Gassing was new and most were suspicious of it and besides here, complex warrens are not all that common so gas was not a viable proposition. Steel jaw traps were. It was a case of destroy the rabbits, or be destroyed financially.
I wonder how many people born after the 60's would even know how to set one effectively, so that the trap would even catch its victim.
Still, most now believe them to be cruel, but how many ponder to think of the agonising death we put rats through with rodenticides or other animals with strychnine? As no other wholesale, yet effective methods are available to solve the problem, we dont think of it as unacceptable for rats to become ill and endure for several days before kicking off.Victims of steel jaw traps suffered for a few hours
Don't feed them, get Rid of them |
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Fenn Man
Senior Member
193 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2006 : 00:36:05
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quote:
Originally posted by pestguard1
I have been informed by the wildlife unit in Bristol that to sell them for collection/historical/antique pourposes they have to be de-activated so that they can no longer be used again .........they recomend that they be welded closed ..........just ban them from sale altogether would be the best solution.
Good god all f***ing mighty! I walked out of this place, aeons ago, because I was sick of hearing biggoted, misinformed sh!t spoken. I've just looked in now, for the first time in ages, and what do I find ....?
Brian: Calm down. Take a deep breath. Stop screaming such utter b*llocks. Pul Eeeease!
Who ever you spoke to in Bristol is full of sh!t. The relevant law is the Spring Traps Approval Order (s). That's where the govt. tell us What we can use. Where. What for and How. IF ye were half a Pest Controller, ye'd be aware of that FACT.
As for your one man Anti crusade against historical relics of age and value; I'm quite an advanced Collector of Old Traps myself. I'd Love to show you my Collection, just for the pleasure of seeing you wet your knickers with self righteous indignation. My god, what a flap and a lather you'd go into at the sight of So Many 'Gin' and other traps.
Shame is, I can't invite yeself or anyone else round to my place. Fact is, I won't even disclose any closer than the bloody County I now live in. Why? Because, Einstien, my Collection features traps so disgustingly valuable that people would come here and stop at nothing to steal them from me - as we have recorded instances of, where my fellow Collectors have slipped up.
Now, before you swallow your own tounge in your apoplexy, why not sneak back to that eBay sale - it's ok; Ye can squint ye eyes if ye need to - and take a peek at the Price that Williams Pole - in lovely condition - has so far reached. Over a TON!
THINK: What could a criminally intent person Do with that highly valuable antique which would so enflame you? Stick it on a pole and catch a hawk? Aye? Over a Hundred Pounds to do that? And how much is a Perfectly Legal Fenn Mk IV, you genius? Think hard and slowly, Brian; What could a criminally intent person do with a fivers worth of Legal trap?
Are you in the wrong job? Wrong forum? Or just some Anti out of his league?
What ever. You're spouting an utter crock of sh!t Emotive. Misinformed. Misleading and showing consumate ignorance of just the sort of thing a modern Pest Controller should be versed in.
This is an industry for Trained, Informed, Responsible people. People who have a clue what they're talking about. Ever considered Window Cleaning as a career move?
Hullo, to the rest of ye. Have fun. Be safe. And do, please, keep an eye on the encroaching lunatic fringe, eh?
Fenn Man; Signing back out.
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ben
Senior Member
United Kingdom
128 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2006 : 02:14:29
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hello fenn man nice to see you pop in, hope all is going well over the water .drop a line in now and again.
ben
you learn as you go |
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pestguard1
Junior Member
United Kingdom
28 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2006 : 10:06:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Fenn Man
quote:
Originally posted by pestguard1
I have been informed by the wildlife unit in Bristol that to sell them for collection/historical/antique pourposes they have to be de-activated so that they can no longer be used again .........they recomend that they be welded closed ..........just ban them from sale altogether would be the best solution.
Good god all f***ing mighty! I walked out of this place, aeons ago, because I was sick of hearing biggoted, misinformed sh!t spoken. I've just looked in now, for the first time in ages, and what do I find ....?
Brian: Calm down. Take a deep breath. Stop screaming such utter b*llocks. Pul Eeeease!
Who ever you spoke to in Bristol is full of sh!t. The relevant law is the Spring Traps Approval Order (s). That's where the govt. tell us What we can use. Where. What for and How. IF ye were half a Pest Controller, ye'd be aware of that FACT.
As for your one man Anti crusade against historical relics of age and value; I'm quite an advanced Collector of Old Traps myself. I'd Love to show you my Collection, just for the pleasure of seeing you wet your knickers with self righteous indignation. My god, what a flap and a lather you'd go into at the sight of So Many 'Gin' and other traps.
Shame is, I can't invite yeself or anyone else round to my place. Fact is, I won't even disclose any closer than the bloody County I now live in. Why? Because, Einstien, my Collection features traps so disgustingly valuable that people would come here and stop at nothing to steal them from me - as we have recorded instances of, where my fellow Collectors have slipped up.
Now, before you swallow your own tounge in your apoplexy, why not sneak back to that eBay sale - it's ok; Ye can squint ye eyes if ye need to - and take a peek at the Price that Williams Pole - in lovely condition - has so far reached. Over a TON!
THINK: What could a criminally intent person Do with that highly valuable antique which would so enflame you? Stick it on a pole and catch a hawk? Aye? Over a Hundred Pounds to do that? And how much is a Perfectly Legal Fenn Mk IV, you genius? Think hard and slowly, Brian; What could a criminally intent person do with a fivers worth of Legal trap?
Are you in the wrong job? Wrong forum? Or just some Anti out of his league?
What ever. You're spouting an utter crock of sh!t Emotive. Misinformed. Misleading and showing consumate ignorance of just the sort of thing a modern Pest Controller should be versed in.
This is an industry for Trained, Informed, Responsible people. People who have a clue what they're talking about. Ever considered Window Cleaning as a career move?
Hullo, to the rest of ye. Have fun. Be safe. And do, please, keep an eye on the encroaching lunatic fringe, eh?
Fenn Man; Signing back out.
First of all MR so called FENN MAN I have been in the pest control business for the past 16 yeasrs ,and yes I do know the law as to traps , it was the Wildlife Unit at Bristol that informed me as to the Laws regarding GIN TRAPS & HAW k POLE TRAPS and that legislation is changing every day ........if you care to read the listing, I asked the same question at the beggining of the thread.
Secondly , I`m not on a crusade to persicute people who in there short sighted wisdom decide to collect/use or otherwise these GIN TRAPS /HAWK TRAPS..............and going by your replies .....you sound like a relic/antique yourself .............SO GO BANN YOURSELF you old fart.
get back under that stone you crawled out of ....as for taking up window cleaning ..........I would`nt like to take work away from your second job.
...and theres me thinking this forum was for people to ask questions and put forward ther views as to the pest control industry.........obviously not .........with replies like that ....
Brian |
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The Spotlight Kid
Member
66 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2006 : 10:08:36
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My god, what a refreshing change. Welcome back the sound of reason and still on form I see. Phasers never on stun with Fenn Man around.
Whilst replying to this topic I was pondering what Fenn Man would have thought of all the nanny state politically correct suggestions being made but never actually expected he'd see it or reply.
I'm tempted to say "case rested" but actually hope this rolls some more. Long live free debate!
PS I thought this would slot in under Fenn's thread but Pestguard1 just pipped me to it, just in case anyone was wondering who I was calling the sound of reason.
Oh and less of that talk about signing out please, I await your next contibution ! |
Edited by - The Spotlight Kid on 15 Oct 2006 10:17:48 |
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Gin Traps ?????/
