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NickA
Hyperactive Member
United Kingdom
1519 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Mar 2007 : 10:05:18
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Are we using technology to the best effect.?
On line training, happens USA, soon in Australia via UPMA.
More use of hand held devices, with more pest information stored in memory or by cd/dvd.
Is video conferencing a reality UK or sitting in vehicles for hours to meet up at an office the norm?
Will training support material be available via e books?
Pests are smart - We're smarter
www.rpcwildlife.co.uk |
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splatman
Member
United Kingdom
78 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2007 : 13:21:53
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| I would think that any self respecting pestie, like most on this forum! Enjoys the benefits of the internet and all its contents, you only have to google "pest control" and have a million websites and billions of pages of info at your fingertips, I like things like the ECDL (European Computer Driving License) A series of on line classes, with exams at the end of it. Could be a way forward? |
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Iain
Moderator
United Kingdom
772 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2007 : 14:50:17
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There are weaknesses with on-line training don't forget.
It's not too hot when it comes to practical, 'hands on' training, which I believe is quite important in our line of work.
Even with classroom training, you usually get to pick and see, close up, the equipment and products we use.
The other benefit of training in a group is the interaction between the people there. The most memorable courses I've been on had a lot of input from the students. Adrian Meyer tells me that he always learns things from courses - even when he's the tutor, which are my sentiments as well. I'm not convinced that this would occur as much in a video conference situation.
Give me person to person training any day. |
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nigel
Hyperactive Member
808 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2007 : 15:58:02
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quote:
The other benefit of training in a group is the interaction between the people there.
I have often heard this said on courses by delgates, they can learn a lot from each other, sometimes more than they learn from the course content because they are speaking to others who have the same problems as they do and how they over come the problems they face.
Lets face it, how many courses, take you and show you what design features built in to a property help prevent rats and mice?
Or that the new building regulations are now helping to cause infestations?
How many courses teach you that by knowing the age of a property and how living standards have changed over the last 100 years can help you solve that long standing problem at a property?
Or the simple things in life, like the Sun rising in the East and sets in the west, can help you explain to a customer why they seem to be the only ones in the street, who keeps getting a wasp nest or ants each year. |
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Jonathan Peck
Senior Member
United Kingdom
254 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2007 : 19:48:37
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Iain
You are quite right about interaction. I know that Moray and his colleagues prefer a minimum of 10 - 12 people in a class because they spark off each other and learn far more because the atmosphere is right. This is especially important with practical people.
Perhaps, it is different for scholars who can work on their own in a library but I believe that learning in a group will always be better than distance learning.
Best wishes
Jonathan Peck
Killgerm Group |
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NickA
Hyperactive Member
United Kingdom
1519 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2007 : 21:18:10
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So video conferencing is a no no, people can spend hours in their car to get to a meeting. Time which could be more wisely spent.
Agree that interaction between tutor and trainees good, but sometimes tutors don't want to hear their own misconceptions.
Trainees could get help as they start out, look up insects not have to do a web search, but have a reputable online source.
Hands on approach, tho jests Iain surely. One sprayer 10 - 20 trainees, empty packets,practical training as opposed to hands on might be better.
Use of handheld devices, USB graph pads, digital camera. Or is it the investment that is the concern.
Always interesting to look at the Portal jobs and see the salary offered for some jobs compared to what they want in exchange.
Lewis had a good source for the law in Ireland,just think if that link had been more widely known how illuminating it would have been.
Pests are smart - We're smarter
www.rpcwildlife.co.uk |
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Jonathan Peck
Senior Member
United Kingdom
254 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2007 : 21:53:31
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Nobody has said that distance learning is a no-no (video conferencing is something different). Just that interaction in a class is better for many people, including the tutors.
If people didn't know about the problems in Ireland over sticky boards for rodents, then distance learning would not have helped. It was a very well publicised problem for people involved in the Irish pest control market.
With regard to investment in training, more and more courses involve practical training. At our insect identification course, it is one microscope per student. Trouble is that we make these significant investments in training aids/equipment and then we are attacked when we charge for training!
Best wishes
Jonathan Peck
Killgerm Group |
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splatman
Member
United Kingdom
78 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2007 : 22:13:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Jonathan Peck
Nobody has said that distance learning is a no-no (video conferencing is something different). Just that interaction in a class is better for many people, including the tutors.
If people didn't know about the problems in Ireland over sticky boards for rodents, then distance learning would not have helped. It was a very well publicised problem for people involved in the Irish pest control market.
With regard to investment in training, more and more courses involve practical training. At our insect identification course, it is one microscope per student. Trouble is that we make these significant investments in training aids/equipment and then we are attacked when we charge for training!
Best wishes
Jonathan Peck
Killgerm Group
It's a bit weird.... |
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splatman
Member
United Kingdom
78 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2007 : 22:17:00
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| Well, that was weird, my lost post didnt quite come out as I had expected!! What I wanted to say was that, Jonathan, surely any costs for training are reflected in your products prices? A supermarkets carrier bags, aren't exactly free are they? You pay for them in the price you pay for the goods..... |
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Dusty
Hyperactive Member
Australia
970 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2007 : 23:04:09
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The Open Training Education Network (OTEN) in New South Wales deals with pest control students from all over the state. They are one of a number who conduct the theory course that all pest controllers must pass.
Whilst they do have two face to face workshops that run for three days each, they also conduct lectures from time to time by satellite.
These satellite courses are interactive via telephone, so that questions can be asked instantly.
Most large employers here, as well as the various Australian Government departments do all their training via interactive satellite classes. Some of these are very hightec and use CCTV at the receiving end as well, and that is fed back to the studio so that all can see the person asking the questions as well as the lecturers
Intertaction is important. Most have mobile phones these days so surely students can phone in their questions and receive immediate respones.
Not every course will be suitable for satellite broadcasts, but much of what we learn could be.
Difficult to overcome if you are reluctant to accept changes in technology? Possibly!
Impossible? Not bloody likely!!
In these days of DVD's and CD's, there is really no reason why some of the courses can not be put on disc along with written data and a quiz. That could be a start.
Pest Control Magazine and PTC have Podcasts on a regular basis. This could be another means of training.
Wont get into the argument about Perst Control suppliers charging for courses run for training and CPD, as the situation is different to Australia, however, I should point out that two suppliers here conduct free courses in their rooms and another is about to become involved in something very innovative, but more on that later.
Don't feed them, get Rid of them - visit us on www.ridpest.com.au |
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nigel
Hyperactive Member
808 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2007 : 07:30:29
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One model for describing learning a new skill is the unconscious incompetence to unconscious competence.
This has 4 stages;
1 unconscious incompetence
2 conscious incompetence
3 conscious competence
4 unconscious competence
Although training should aim to get you to at least stage 3 where you are able to do the task, most of our training only ever gets to stage 2 if you are lucky (CPD included). That is to say you are made aware of things but you do not fully understand them or you become aware of your own deficiencies in performing the task. It is then down to you to learn and practice, to fill in the gaps of your training.
With good training you can achieve stage 3 but it is rare in this industry because you do not have the time to spend hours putting in to practice what has been taught before you leave at the end of the day so are unable prove that you have learnt to do the job.
Those that then study and practice can then achieve stage 4, this is when doing the job becomes second nature.
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Dusty
Hyperactive Member
Australia
970 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2007 : 08:09:34
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Microscopes? Do UK Pesties use microscopes at home and/or in the field to ID insects?
Don't feed them, get Rid of them - visit us on www.ridpest.com.au |
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NickA
Hyperactive Member
United Kingdom
1519 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2007 : 09:05:09
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JD, I use a field microscope as well as a hand lens.
So the answer is yes.
Pests are smart - We're smarter
www.rpcwildlife.co.uk |
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NickA
Hyperactive Member
United Kingdom
1519 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2007 : 09:34:03
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[quote]Originally posted by Jonathan Peck
If people didn't know about the problems in Ireland over sticky boards for rodents, then distance learning would not have helped. It was a very well publicised problem for people involved in the Irish pest control market.
Obviously not for every one involved in the Irish pest control market
With regard to investment in training, more and more courses involve practical training. At our insect identification course, it is one microscope per student. Trouble is that we make these significant investments in training aids/equipment and then we are attacked when we charge for training!
Must be the placres you frequent. I've paid for most of mine, but discounts or cheap is a mindset.
Best wishes
Jonathan Peck
Killgerm Group
Pests are smart - We're smarter
www.rpcwildlife.co.uk |
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The Spotlight Kid
Moderator
1495 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2007 : 18:04:57
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It seems to me it is just a question of how widely our trainers want to cast their net to include international trainees. Obviously in the USA and Australia distance learning and the technology required to make it work are a necessity due to the sheer scale of their continents. In the UK if we are willing to learn there is no real reason not to attend any course although I admit that those that are self-employed would loose some earnings. You could argue then that the classroom is the best place to learn in Britain with the inter-action with fellow trainees as has been pointed out already.
If the trainers wish to make more money and go international then why not? but I don't see any big advantages for us Brits. This is just a personal opinion but I have travelled to different parts of the country for many excellent courses which could not have been matched by "e-classroom" methods. |
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Simmo
Member
75 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2007 : 18:37:46
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| When I went into self employment I went on quite a few computer courses at the local FE College. I also signed up for several on-line courses with Learn Direct. For me however, the on-line courses were an abysmal failure, because I simply could not motivate myself to sit in front of the computer and work my way through the set tasks. Actually driving to the college on wet and windy winter nights was not a problem though. It was the human interaction that made the courses interesting, not the learning per se. |
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ben
Senior Member
United Kingdom
202 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2007 : 19:32:28
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you talk about bumping ideas off each other in groups. isnt it what happens on here every day and look at what comes out of it.
ben
you learn as you go |
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blatta
Senior Member
United Kingdom
288 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2007 : 20:01:03
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Ben
From your comment I am not sure if you are for, or against online training  |
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splatman
Member
United Kingdom
78 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2007 : 20:52:06
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| How about a chat room? I know there are a few about but how about one dedicated to pest control? I have my own website and of there is enough interest, I would set one up, could be entertaining!! lol |
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Dusty
Hyperactive Member
Australia
970 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2007 : 21:11:22
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Spot, I would have thought UK small enough that travel to a venue wouldnt be a problem either, but comments I see from time to time suggests that for some (at least)it is a bother. I guess it is what you grow accustomed to.
Because I live in a rural area, I frequently travel over 200 km to seminars and think nothing of it, as it is my choice to live where I do.
I occasionally moan about the times the functions are staged, as I always have to lose time to attend. For me staging these things on weekends would be preferred, but better minds have probably deduced that less will be inclined to attend if held on week ends.
As far as sitting in front of a computer to compete tasks, that is common practice here.
Many of our universities offer some degrees that can be earned by Open Learning studies. Nearest campus to me is 150 km so not viable to attend on a daily basis. Others have far worse predicaments. If you want a degree/diploma or certificate badly enough, you develop motivation
I dont believe that all pest control can be learned by distance learning. Some areas will benefit much more by face to face situations, but when CPD points are being sought, I see nothing wrong with looking at a CD/DVD or on line tutorial, filling in a couple of sheets of responses to questions, either on line of posting them off, and then being credited with the points anon.
Don't feed them, get Rid of them - visit us on www.ridpest.com.au |
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NickA
Hyperactive Member
United Kingdom
1519 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2007 : 22:08:52
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In reply to training Stateside seems funny that suppliers will have multiple depots/offices (posted about these before) but are happy to do on line training.
I suggest it for new entrants, and those who are of a more younger age.
When I was at college(A level chemistry & Physics) my parents were concerned that I would get distracted by flesh and pint pots. Now it seems not being able to sit at a screen.
Suppose it depends on your motivation, but when you look at the fora UK and see the moans about travelling why such a backlash against online training Open University does it and has evolved over the years wouldn't call that a disaster.
Considering the cost of motoring in UK anything that could reduce that cost should be applauded.
Pests are smart - We're smarter
www.rpcwildlife.co.uk |
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Topic |
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Training
