| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Iain |
Posted - 26 Aug 2006 : 10:05:26
My former colleagues from Sorex are getting very excited about an updating of their long-established Neosorexa rat and mouse bait which they are launching in September.
By adding some specially-shaped pellets to the cut wheat base, they claim that this encourages 'foraging behaviour' as it adds variety. They have also added subtle olfactory and flavour enhancers. I can't smell any difference, but that apparently is because I'm not a rodent! It seems that what we can smell may be too much for rodents.
The result is a product (Neosorexa Gold Pro) that they claim:
1. Provides faster control
2. Is twice as palatable to rats and mice
3. Helps overcome neophobia in rats
4. Helps overcome behaviourally resistant mouse problems
5. Helps deliver a lethal dose in 1 day (from difenacoum!)
These are pretty heavy claims, I think you'll agree.
Knowing the people involved I haven't the slightest doubt that they wouldn't be making such claims without very solid, scientific backing.
However, claims based on lab and limited field trials can sometimes be overly optimistic - I know, I've been in that situation several times. At the end of the day, it will be down to how the product behaves in the hands of the end users that matters. And that's where you come in.
What are your initial thoughts on this development, based on the launch presentations? (details below)
Once you've used the product - what do you think of the claims?
Let's start a string that will probably last for a few months on how significant this new technology actually is.
Launch details:
Sorex Seminars, featuring this new technology:
Gatwick 5th September
Colchester 6th September
Coventry 7th September
Wigan 8th September (I'll be at this one)
If you want book a place at these free seminars (lunch provided!) call Jen Sampson at 0151 420 7151.
So - hype or a significant advance? - you decide. 
Any questions so far, please post them here.
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| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| nigel |
Posted - 12 Nov 2006 : 19:50:08
At present I have only one such customer on my books, he has been told for the first time in 10 years that his business has been running as to why he gets rats but todate he has failed to address the problem. As soon as he follows the advice that is on his inspection reports he will also find that he stops getting them but that is his choice at least I have given him the information. |
| ben |
Posted - 12 Nov 2006 : 18:05:08
we all use ipm but your not telling us all you customers follow though with all advice given.
you learn as you go |
| nigel |
Posted - 12 Nov 2006 : 16:16:05
Adrian, it is like a light has been finally switched on.
I have been using IPM for over 13 years now, it what allows me to sort out the problems that others only treat year after year.
It does not involve the unneccessary use of poisons and relies more on proofing and educating customers to understand what it is that is causing their problem. It is what allows me to sort out at least 95% of all rat jobs I come across, once and for all if the customer follows the advice given or the proofing is done.
If you think about it, if customers understood why they got rats in the first place, they would not need our services!!!!!!!! but because they do not, they need us.
I find it hard to understand why it takes some a month or more to shift rats from some situations, when in the majority of cases it could be done in just 2-3 weeks and I personally probably only come a cross 1 job in every 200-300 where such novel baits would actually help speed up treatment, if people are finding that they need such products at every job, then they are doing something wrong. learn from your mistakes and improve, do not keep making the same mistakes.
People may ridicule my comments and remarks, water off a ducks back, reading some posts, they are where I was 20 years ago.
I have not said that it is your training that fails you? You are not taught what you need to know.
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| ABPest |
Posted - 12 Nov 2006 : 12:30:50
Nigel, hopefully you are recommending something called Integrated Pest Management ( you may call it something else! ).
Even with IPM there is an important role for pesticides, and when there is a need, then it should be a product that is eaten/taken up quickly, leading to a quicker more humane death, removing the risk of zoonose transmission asap.
There is another factor that is very important in pest management. The CUSTOMER. The customer has an expectation ( indeed a right ) that the pests are controlled as efficiently and effectively as possible. Control may be desirable along with investigations as to how and why the pests have arrived and before proofing, habitat manipulation, environmental changes etc.
Just a thought as to why research into more effective/efficient pesticides should continue.
Adrian. |
| nigel |
Posted - 11 Nov 2006 : 19:49:08
Sadly Adrian, it is products like this that potentially help keep you in the deep dark sea!
It is your understanding, knowledge and skill of any given situation that will bring you long term solutions for your customers problems, not products used, these only offer short term relief.
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| ben |
Posted - 11 Nov 2006 : 15:09:02
i understood every word of that!
you learn as you go |
| ABPest |
Posted - 11 Nov 2006 : 10:04:30
We need to get out of the deep red sea, and into the deep blue ocean. We need to get out of the silo, define the box and then think outside the box. Push our envelopes and leverage our resouces, start blue sky thinking, thus transitioning to joined up factoring, by conveyor belt science. Only then will we fly with the eagles!
What am I talking about? Well Dusty and Nigel will know
I haven't a clue
But congratulations to Sorex for attempting something different.
Adrian. |
| andyb |
Posted - 10 Nov 2006 : 18:42:16
As you know, due to some dodgey emails I received when previously using this forum I deleted my posting. However I feel that the Pheonix needs to rise on this subject.
The product has obviously been trialed before release, the trials must have been good or it would not have been released. Best we watch and see what results are coming back from the Industry. Foraging pellets could just be the answer to those jobs that just chucking a bit of bait around wont cure the problem. Give it a go.
Thank you Iain for the invite to join the Barrettine Forum.
ANDY B |
| Iain |
Posted - 10 Nov 2006 : 18:25:11
As I understand, it is the contrast between the 'foraging pellets' and the normal cut wheat which causes the rats to start eating the bait more quickly and to eat more at a 'sitting'.
The pellets are a different shape, texture, smell and taste to the toxic cut wheat bait and this seems to make it more interesting to the rodents. All of these attributes were carefully selected from many options but the observed effects add up to more than the sum of each one when used individually.
This product is of course fully Approved as it is, so it is not simply Neosorex 'with bits added'. The foraging pellets only account for a few percent (4% off the top of my head) so the effect on the overall difenacoum content would be negligible (48ppm vs 50ppm) if the the cut wheat contains the same as before.
I met one person at Pest Tech who had used it and was very positive about the control he had achieved. |
| nigel |
Posted - 10 Nov 2006 : 17:08:59
Heres something that might get your minds working overtime, is it the pellets themselves or the colour of the pellets that makes the bait more noticable?
We know rats have poor eye sight and in monochrome anything light in colour will stand out more than the blue we currently use.
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| nigel |
Posted - 10 Nov 2006 : 17:05:08
I am puzzled by such a product, If i grated chocolate into a tub of neo to make it more attractive, i would be using a product at a strength not authorised for use. So my question is, is the AI in this product at a slightly greater strength in the toxic particles to compensate for the additional weight of the non toxic pellets?
Difenacoum can already kill in a single feed from my experience, only it takes up to 10 days to do so. |
| Gamekeeper |
Posted - 10 Nov 2006 : 11:36:22
...there's a gauntlet if ever I saw one
Fid Def |
| Iain |
Posted - 10 Nov 2006 : 10:57:10
Misled Youth,
It is indeed a pity that we didn�t meet up at Pest Tech � or did we?
I did however meet up with the Editor of this Forum and was disappointed to hear that my original suspicions about you were indeed valid. Simply using a pseudonym is not sufficient to hide your true identity and as we now know, you do have commercial reasons for asking seemingly innocent questions which promote one product and denigrate another.
Such behaviour undermines the integrity of the board and patronises the genuine pest controllers who use this site as a source of information. Barrettine have been happy to financially support this site with initiatives such as this sponsored forum.
We welcome healthy debate from any other Distributors � as has already been the case - but we respectfully ask that in future, individuals involved in product supply identify themselves, rather than masquerade as a pest controller in order to generate fake dialogues.
If you have a valid point to argue, have the courage of your convictions to do so openly or you risk people wondering what you have to hide.
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| Misled Youth |
Posted - 07 Nov 2006 : 15:20:01
Iain, I appreciate your suspicions!! I am keeping an open mind, i'm guessing like most products if you use it properly then you get good results!! I'm mostly using Slaymor at the moment, never really had any problems with it but was quite interested to see how people have found the Roban with it being a different AI like the sorex range??
Just had a quick look at the barretine web-site and noticed you don't stock the slaymor or roban ranges, is this cause you dont rate them as highly or do you decide on price?
Maybe catch up with some people in birmingham tomorrow? |
| Iain |
Posted - 07 Nov 2006 : 08:31:56
Misled Youth,
You raise some interesting questions - but as you choose to be anonymous, you must expect a certain amount of suspicion as to your real identity and motivation, particularly as you have decided to 'promote' a competing product at the same time! 
Knowing the people involved, I have no doubts that the new Neosorexa is significantly better than the old one. But where that places it relative to all the other products on the market is less clear.
My fear is that Sorex are running the risk of re-positioning this product into the 'special use' category. Where you have resistance or particularly significant neophobia, this may be the product to use....but in the majority of situations?
Like you, I'm waiting to hear more from those who have used it in anger.
I'm keeping an open mind about it though - are you?
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| Misled Youth |
Posted - 06 Nov 2006 : 17:18:16
SO has anyone actually been using the neo-sorexa gold??? AS far as i can see its just neosorexa with some pellets in it, and its not even that easy to find the pellets, not like the pictures they sent out anyway. I know its supposed to keep them more attracted to the food, but if they just eat the pellets then dont they just get a free feed? Cause as far as i'm aware the pellets don't contain any AI. If anyone knows different please let me know!! Cheers |
| Iain |
Posted - 19 Sep 2006 : 08:35:28
Thank you for your contributions, gentlemen.
That 'behaviour-led research' is not new was one of the key points made by Adrian Meyer during his presentation at these Seminars. In fact he referred to work carried out by Oxford scientists Chitty and Southern - in the 1930s! It would appear that in the days before anti-coagulants, pest controllers had to use 'field craft' a lot more than is happens now - perhaps to our detriment.
For those that missed the Sorex Seminars, Adrian will be repeating and building on his excellent presentation in the new course he has developed for us:
"Successful Rodent Control in the Modern Environment"
Details on this course and the dates and venues are to be found elsewhere on this sponsored Forum. |
| Jonathan Peck |
Posted - 18 Sep 2006 : 14:49:47
Richard
Since Dr Havers is your technical adviser at Essex, it is understandable that you want to promote his reputation.
However, there are a number of people whose reputation in the study of rodent behaviour, rightly or wrongly, must be considered much better than Dr Havers. I refer to Adrian Meyer, Alan Buckle, Roger Quy, Alan MacNicoll, Rob Smith and David Macdonald. There are also a number of people working for Sorex and Rentokil as well as in universities who have some pretty impressive expertise.
With regard to Eradirat, we have spoken at length to the company now selling the product. They tell us that the reason for its initial failure as a product was down to the claims that were being made for it by the people initially marketing it.
Since they have employed Alan Buckle to help them technically, they have seen an increase in sales in some European countries, although it is still an expensive alternative rodenticide.
Best wishes
Jonathan Peck
Killgerm Group |
| Gamekeeper |
Posted - 18 Sep 2006 : 09:56:59
Seminar was very good. It was the rodents that I was there for - never get cockroaches where I am in Suffolk. We are too rural for birds to be a serious problem apart from all the winging old dears in Aldeburgh ! Bring on the whole grain version of Gold Pro and I will trial some
Fid Def |
| Iain |
Posted - 18 Sep 2006 : 09:47:17
I'll pass your comments on. |
