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Iain
Moderator
United Kingdom
227 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Aug 2006 : 10:05:26
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My former colleagues from Sorex are getting very excited about an updating of their long-established Neosorexa rat and mouse bait which they are launching in September.
By adding some specially-shaped pellets to the cut wheat base, they claim that this encourages 'foraging behaviour' as it adds variety. They have also added subtle olfactory and flavour enhancers. I can't smell any difference, but that apparently is because I'm not a rodent! It seems that what we can smell may be too much for rodents.
The result is a product (Neosorexa Gold Pro) that they claim:
1. Provides faster control
2. Is twice as palatable to rats and mice
3. Helps overcome neophobia in rats
4. Helps overcome behaviourally resistant mouse problems
5. Helps deliver a lethal dose in 1 day (from difenacoum!)
These are pretty heavy claims, I think you'll agree.
Knowing the people involved I haven't the slightest doubt that they wouldn't be making such claims without very solid, scientific backing.
However, claims based on lab and limited field trials can sometimes be overly optimistic - I know, I've been in that situation several times. At the end of the day, it will be down to how the product behaves in the hands of the end users that matters. And that's where you come in.
What are your initial thoughts on this development, based on the launch presentations? (details below)
Once you've used the product - what do you think of the claims?
Let's start a string that will probably last for a few months on how significant this new technology actually is.
Launch details:
Sorex Seminars, featuring this new technology:
Gatwick 5th September
Colchester 6th September
Coventry 7th September
Wigan 8th September (I'll be at this one)
If you want book a place at these free seminars (lunch provided!) call Jen Sampson at 0151 420 7151.
So - hype or a significant advance? - you decide. 
Any questions so far, please post them here.
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Iain
Moderator
United Kingdom
227 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2006 : 20:11:58
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The series of launch seminars has now been completed - what did you think, those of you that went?
Personally I thought Adrian Meyer was on top form. What did you think of his thoughts on scent 'trailing'?
In the absence of any new actives for the forseeable future, making the best of the ones we've got through the innovative work Sorex have been involved in has got to be the way to go. Their new product certainly looks interesting.
As an entomologist I was particularly interested to see the work on Abamectin, especially their free flowing powder bait for cockroaches.
Anyone else with any comments? |
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NickA
Hyperactive Member
United Kingdom
806 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2006 : 22:26:26
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Trailing an old technique as Adrian admitted.
But old ways still have relevance today, what was using urine from recent trap success, pheromones.
Pre baiting might make a comeback or could that be monitoring blocks?
Thought most talks good but lets remember Avert been around in States a long time.
Thought the bird proofing was basically the same as last year.
Gold would have been better to have active samples, but at least the seminars where available to every one not like the do up in Leicestershire for the top 10, shame on that supplier.
Working for co-operation ,not division between OUR Associations. |
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NickA
Hyperactive Member
United Kingdom
806 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2006 : 16:32:22
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Update all that effort for 6 people one of which missed the talks but came for the grub, thats property developers for you!!!!
Wonder who is scared of birds?
Working for co-operation ,not division between OUR Associations. |
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Iain
Moderator
United Kingdom
227 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2006 : 18:17:57
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| Is it just me - or does anyone else have difficulty understanding what Nick is on about? |
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NickA
Hyperactive Member
United Kingdom
806 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2006 : 19:31:05
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A supplier?manufacturer/importer had a private do on Thursday 6 people attended, one didn't bother to show till evening for the free grub.
That shows respect! Almost more from **** (4) than "guests".
One of said staff has a fear of birds. Iain you could have picked up phone.
But no one from distrubuters invited.
Working for co-operation ,not division between OUR Associations. |
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Richard
New Member
15 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2006 : 19:18:59
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Behaviour-led research has been around for years,
Dr Steven Havers, who is probably the uks most knowledeable person on the subject has been working independantly and with Pelgar International for a number of years on behavior led baits,. incorporating shape, size and vairous attractants to both attract and pro-long rodents feeding.
My view, taking into account all I have read about Neosorex Gold, Sorex are just playing catch up with the other more popular baits and just re-launching the same Neosorexa bait with some extra bits in under a new name for a much higher price �64.00 for 25kg bag?.
I know this may seem a harsh comment but its my view.
Of course time may prove me completely wrong and maybe if anyone has enough money to invest in a bag the results will be posted.
Regards |
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Iain
Moderator
United Kingdom
227 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2006 : 09:29:26
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Richard,
Perhaps we should wait for comments from the field before dismissing this new product as ..."the same Neosorexa bait with some extra bits in"... I agree that Sorex have never been afraid to price high, but their products have stood the test of time, I think even you would agree.
Even at the price you quote, this new form of Neosorexa is significantly cheaper than Eradirat, which is a product that Dr. Havers was involved with at one time, I believe.
Need I say more? |
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Richard
New Member
15 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2006 : 21:53:27
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Yes, your right Ian, Steve was involved in Rodent bait attractants way back then nearly 10 years ago. As I remember he was leading the way then as well as now.
Eradirat was poo pooed by many in the UK back then but i can assure you it is now a major selling product in Europe, Amercia and the middle and far East and I understand set to float on the stock market soon.
It shows Steves Diversity and willingness to look at new products and new companies, rather that so called independent consultants that work for manufacturers and recommend products from only one supplier.
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Iain
Moderator
United Kingdom
227 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2006 : 09:47:17
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| I'll pass your comments on. |
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Gamekeeper
Senior Member
United Kingdom
165 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2006 : 09:56:59
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Seminar was very good. It was the rodents that I was there for - never get cockroaches where I am in Suffolk. We are too rural for birds to be a serious problem apart from all the winging old dears in Aldeburgh ! Bring on the whole grain version of Gold Pro and I will trial some
Fid Def |
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Jonathan Peck
Member
United Kingdom
68 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2006 : 14:49:47
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Richard
Since Dr Havers is your technical adviser at Essex, it is understandable that you want to promote his reputation.
However, there are a number of people whose reputation in the study of rodent behaviour, rightly or wrongly, must be considered much better than Dr Havers. I refer to Adrian Meyer, Alan Buckle, Roger Quy, Alan MacNicoll, Rob Smith and David Macdonald. There are also a number of people working for Sorex and Rentokil as well as in universities who have some pretty impressive expertise.
With regard to Eradirat, we have spoken at length to the company now selling the product. They tell us that the reason for its initial failure as a product was down to the claims that were being made for it by the people initially marketing it.
Since they have employed Alan Buckle to help them technically, they have seen an increase in sales in some European countries, although it is still an expensive alternative rodenticide.
Best wishes
Jonathan Peck
Killgerm Group |
Edited by - Jonathan Peck on 18 Sep 2006 17:06:49 |
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Iain
Moderator
United Kingdom
227 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2006 : 08:35:28
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Thank you for your contributions, gentlemen.
That 'behaviour-led research' is not new was one of the key points made by Adrian Meyer during his presentation at these Seminars. In fact he referred to work carried out by Oxford scientists Chitty and Southern - in the 1930s! It would appear that in the days before anti-coagulants, pest controllers had to use 'field craft' a lot more than is happens now - perhaps to our detriment.
For those that missed the Sorex Seminars, Adrian will be repeating and building on his excellent presentation in the new course he has developed for us:
"Successful Rodent Control in the Modern Environment"
Details on this course and the dates and venues are to be found elsewhere on this sponsored Forum. |
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Misled Youth
Starting Member
United Kingdom
3 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2006 : 17:18:16
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| SO has anyone actually been using the neo-sorexa gold??? AS far as i can see its just neosorexa with some pellets in it, and its not even that easy to find the pellets, not like the pictures they sent out anyway. I know its supposed to keep them more attracted to the food, but if they just eat the pellets then dont they just get a free feed? Cause as far as i'm aware the pellets don't contain any AI. If anyone knows different please let me know!! Cheers |
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Iain
Moderator
United Kingdom
227 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2006 : 08:31:56
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Misled Youth,
You raise some interesting questions - but as you choose to be anonymous, you must expect a certain amount of suspicion as to your real identity and motivation, particularly as you have decided to 'promote' a competing product at the same time! 
Knowing the people involved, I have no doubts that the new Neosorexa is significantly better than the old one. But where that places it relative to all the other products on the market is less clear.
My fear is that Sorex are running the risk of re-positioning this product into the 'special use' category. Where you have resistance or particularly significant neophobia, this may be the product to use....but in the majority of situations?
Like you, I'm waiting to hear more from those who have used it in anger.
I'm keeping an open mind about it though - are you? 
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Misled Youth
Starting Member
United Kingdom
3 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2006 : 15:20:01
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Iain, I appreciate your suspicions!! I am keeping an open mind, i'm guessing like most products if you use it properly then you get good results!! I'm mostly using Slaymor at the moment, never really had any problems with it but was quite interested to see how people have found the Roban with it being a different AI like the sorex range??
Just had a quick look at the barretine web-site and noticed you don't stock the slaymor or roban ranges, is this cause you dont rate them as highly or do you decide on price?
Maybe catch up with some people in birmingham tomorrow? |
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Iain
Moderator
United Kingdom
227 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2006 : 10:57:10
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Misled Youth,
It is indeed a pity that we didn�t meet up at Pest Tech � or did we?
I did however meet up with the Editor of this Forum and was disappointed to hear that my original suspicions about you were indeed valid. Simply using a pseudonym is not sufficient to hide your true identity and as we now know, you do have commercial reasons for asking seemingly innocent questions which promote one product and denigrate another.
Such behaviour undermines the integrity of the board and patronises the genuine pest controllers who use this site as a source of information. Barrettine have been happy to financially support this site with initiatives such as this sponsored forum.
We welcome healthy debate from any other Distributors � as has already been the case - but we respectfully ask that in future, individuals involved in product supply identify themselves, rather than masquerade as a pest controller in order to generate fake dialogues.
If you have a valid point to argue, have the courage of your convictions to do so openly or you risk people wondering what you have to hide.
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Gamekeeper
Senior Member
United Kingdom
165 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2006 : 11:36:22
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...there's a gauntlet if ever I saw one 
Fid Def |
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nigel
Senior Member
360 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2006 : 17:05:08
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I am puzzled by such a product, If i grated chocolate into a tub of neo to make it more attractive, i would be using a product at a strength not authorised for use. So my question is, is the AI in this product at a slightly greater strength in the toxic particles to compensate for the additional weight of the non toxic pellets?
Difenacoum can already kill in a single feed from my experience, only it takes up to 10 days to do so. |
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nigel
Senior Member
360 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2006 : 17:08:59
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Heres something that might get your minds working overtime, is it the pellets themselves or the colour of the pellets that makes the bait more noticable?
We know rats have poor eye sight and in monochrome anything light in colour will stand out more than the blue we currently use.
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Iain
Moderator
United Kingdom
227 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2006 : 18:25:11
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As I understand, it is the contrast between the 'foraging pellets' and the normal cut wheat which causes the rats to start eating the bait more quickly and to eat more at a 'sitting'.
The pellets are a different shape, texture, smell and taste to the toxic cut wheat bait and this seems to make it more interesting to the rodents. All of these attributes were carefully selected from many options but the observed effects add up to more than the sum of each one when used individually.
This product is of course fully Approved as it is, so it is not simply Neosorex 'with bits added'. The foraging pellets only account for a few percent (4% off the top of my head) so the effect on the overall difenacoum content would be negligible (48ppm vs 50ppm) if the the cut wheat contains the same as before.
I met one person at Pest Tech who had used it and was very positive about the control he had achieved. |
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New Rodent Control Technology from Sorex
