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Dog-rat
Member
United Kingdom
71 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Dec 2006 : 16:27:26
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| Does anyone know of a system for bar coding bait stations ? |
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blatta
Senior Member
United Kingdom
113 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2006 : 17:51:50
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You didn't win your battle with the customer then! or have you agreed to look at the costs of a similar system.
Sorry, can't help with this, we decided the bar coding system was not for us.
If it is just for one customer (that is potentially very profitable) can you not just put the results into a computer and send them via email, or make a word / excel document available on your website?
Blatta |
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Dusty
Senior Member
Australia
382 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2006 : 21:01:06
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Hugh, maybe this might help
http://www.isdweb.com/
Don't feed them, get Rid of them |
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Dog-rat
Member
United Kingdom
71 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2006 : 07:40:26
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Lewis just checking things out so I dont look amateur if they ask about it, at least even if its to expensive then I can rule out that option with them.
I can counter the big R "Radar" system with the Alert system from insectocuter.
Thanks James will look at that. |
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Simmo
Junior Member
23 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2006 : 08:55:02
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Every time a thread starts on the subject of barcodes and e-reporting it seems to fizzle out very quickly. I cannot quite work out why this is the case as I see this as one of the big developments in commercial pest control at the moment. So many customers for pest control seem to be swallowing what the sales reps are promoting about these systems, yet from my own experience (and that of several customers and PC company people that I have spoken to)what they actually deliver is very different.
There is certainly a potential benefit for a multi-site customer in being able to access records from a remote location, but other than that, I really do struggle to see what else these systems have to offer, particularly where the customer contact is responsible for only one or two sites.
So far as I can see just about all of the benefit from these systems is going to the pest control contractor, and the service provided to the customer is often of a lower standard than before, mainly because the standard of reporting falls. Anyone who has had call to audit the e-records of a certain large pest control company will know what i mean (won't they Blatta).
I know that there are many out there that genuinely believe in these systems, and I wish that they would get into some dialogue on forums such as this to counter my concerns. |
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nigel
Senior Member
311 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2006 : 09:09:42
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What I find alarming is that customers actually rely on this type of system!
At best all it would indicate is that someone has been and opened a box and scanned the bar code, true it would tell the customer if or not bait or monitoring points are being visited but there is no way it can tell what was found at each point, that is still down to the technician. It would be easy to remove part eaten blocks for instance and replace with new and say "NO PROBLEMS FOUND"!!!!!
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Simmo
Junior Member
23 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2006 : 10:16:04
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| True, but exactly the same applies with manual date label systems, so this is not a specific criticism that can be levelled at barcode/ e-reporting systems. |
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nigel
Senior Member
311 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2006 : 14:50:18
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So, one system is cheap and gives no guarentees, on the other hand you could employ an expensive with still no guarentees but gives you access to potentially falsified records because as a customer you have no way of verifying what is reported is actually what is happening!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Bigbully
Junior Member
United Kingdom
35 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2006 : 17:25:26
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I take on Simmo's concerns. However, I don't see any reason why one cannot say what is happening at a bait station with a barcode system. We used to use such a system for data capture in the field for another area of work and it was quite effective in improving the information received back at base (again re-inforcing Simmo's comment about contractor benefitting rather than client. With a bait monitoring system there is no reason why, after swiping the bait station barcode, one would not then swipe one of a series of barcodes on a card carried by him to say what was found (part take, complete take etc and what actions taken - bait replaced, bait station cleaned etc).
We used this system a few years back in the LA where I work to assist officers doing street patrols. They would carry around a small booklet of barcodes swipe a barcode for a particular street, estate, park etc and then record conditions and actions taken. As with any system it is prone to abuse - someone could just be sitting in a cafe somewhere and swiping away! For this reason it is always good for pest control customers to see bait boxes cleaned and dated!
Essentially what the system did was standardise the data, ensure that data was more effectively recorded (rather than relying on the memory and notebook of a street warden) and have it sitting in a format that could be easily manipulated - in this case it was held in an Access database with standard reports available to produce management info. It saved all the data entry that the officer would then have to do to translate notes to the PC when they got back to base. But once again - all the benefits to the contractor as per Simmo's note. |
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blatta
Senior Member
United Kingdom
113 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2006 : 21:23:24
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As Simmo implied, I have just surveyed a site where a bar code system is in place and with an online reporting system. It is the first time I have actually seen printouts of the data. My thoughts; what a shambles. Maybe the data was printed out incorrectly (although I was informed that was the way it was) but I was amazed that the checklists did not print out in numerical order! When I wanted to check on the details of a bait point I had to look through the whole list (twice) before I could confirm that it had not been checked on the last visit. If it had been in numerical order it would have been easy to see what had been done, or not...ummmmm .
This has added to my doubts about these systems. They are being sold as a wonderful new way to present information,.. ease of use,... data at the touch of a button; .. well not in this case!
Nothing quite like a good hand written report to pass on all the information necessary, after talking it through of course. |
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Bigbully
Junior Member
United Kingdom
35 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2006 : 10:04:50
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Not a problem with barcoding then - just a poorly designed or poorly used system. I'm not championing the barcode system by the way as we've moved to a more direct system for data capture now using handheld pc's.
Incidentally Blatta/Simmo - are these systems just for bait stations or have you seen them for all monitoring (moth traps etc)? |
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Simmo
Junior Member
23 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2006 : 18:20:47
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Barcodes are used for everything; bait stations, insect monitors, moth traps, fly units, inspection only areas, toilets, tea machines, smoke rooms, girly calenders etc. etc.
(Not all of the above are true) |
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apodemus flavicolis
Starting Member
United Kingdom
9 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2006 : 07:16:39
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blatta
The point of a e-reporting system is you do not need to print the results out they are on the web site for you to look at. What do you mean the checklist did not print out in numerical order? If you meant the bait points were not printed out in numerical order this is not the fault of the system but of the people that inputted the data, just like it would be if someone wrote a checklist but didnt put it in numerical order.
Simmo
You seem to have a real downer on e-reporting, is this because you cannot use it properly or that you are finding that the technicians cannot use it properly. This is just a training issue not a fault of the system. An e-reporting system used properly can provide the customer with a great deal more information than a typical handwritten report etc.
A single site customer can benefit from an e-reporting system if the site has multiple people responsible for issues for the site. A Technical Manager needs only manage the system. Hygiene managers can access the system, as can engineering managers etc. A report is produced with multiple recommendations and each person can access and action their own recommendations without the technical manager having to e-mail, write, meet etc the other people responsible for depatments etc.
With paper systems you have 1 contact and 1 book, with an e-reporting system you have 1 main contact but an infinite number of "books"
Nigel
No system is guaranteed including a paper system, All systems can give access to falsified records if the person inputting or writting falsifies the results. Depending on the barcode system used "bait checking" can be guaranteed.
ALL
This is a new system and is still being improved upon. With time e-reporting will become a more powerful tool for the customer |
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nigel
Senior Member
311 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2006 : 07:48:45
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quote:
Nigel
No system is guaranteed including a paper system, All systems can give access to falsified records if the person inputting or writting falsifies the results. Depending on the barcode system used "bait checking" can be guaranteed.
This statement is true if left to the servicing company to collect and input the information supplied by the tech.
But false if the information is actually written up at the time of the inspection by a rep from the customer.
Given that no matter what system is employed for what customer, at the end of the day, it is the customer who carries the can if something goes wrong and they end up in court (although a new clause in legislation may change that now), so why customers are not taking every precaution to protect themselves at every opertunity is beyond me. |
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blatta
Senior Member
United Kingdom
113 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2006 : 10:00:11
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BB, this particular problem I encountered was an issue with the system, not the principle of barcoding itself.
Af, with a handwritten checklist, the baits are already numbered so that the PCO can do the work in any order but the results are filled in numerically and are therefore easy to view later.
With the system I saw the results were all over the place. Surely the results should be provided in a format that is not confusing for the customer?
I do have other issues with barcoding and e reporting systems though and one of the main problems comes with difficulty of writing a decent report using a hand held device. |
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Dusty
Senior Member
Australia
382 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2006 : 11:09:47
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Ever noticed the amount of times supermarket barcode scanners dont/cant read the code and the info has to be input manually. They also sometimes read incorrectly. But it could nver happen to a pest controller!!!!
I kind of like the idea of a paper copy (filled out by the tech) being later scanned into the mainframe in an office envirnment.Then, everyone can access and disseminate it to their heart's content
Don't feed them, get Rid of them |
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ABPest
Senior Member
United Kingdom
152 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2006 : 11:11:44
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Does the installation of a bar coding system improve the control of the pests?
Adrian. |
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blatta
Senior Member
United Kingdom
113 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2006 : 12:28:39
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All the various systems make no difference to the quality of the work carried out, they can / should improve the way that information is provided, allowing more flexibility, access from distance (useful for group contracts) and manipulation of data as Af pointed out above.
There are some clear benefits from Ereporting systems but the providers should be looking to make sure that the information provided is readily available, clear and easy to understand.
A system that Dusty refers to would look to offer the best of both worlds. |
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ABPest
Senior Member
United Kingdom
152 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2006 : 12:45:38
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If it doesn't improve the control of the pests, then it sounds more like a sales pitch to me!
I was reading a document from the late 1800s recently that stated control of rats in drains and sewers was the way to control rats on the surface!
In some ways, pest control has not changed much for many years. Equipment and pesticides have improved, but the control of pests remains the same. eg putting rodenticide down manholes !!!! Traps for moles etc.
Despite the materials now available to us, we are plagued by more and different/new pests
If a system improves the efficiency of control , then it is useful, if it doesn't, it seems to be an expensive waste of time!
Thats my thought for the day 
Adrian. |
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Simmo
Junior Member
23 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2006 : 13:37:46
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No time for much of a reply at the mo but to answer one question raised earlier concerning the order in which monitors appear on the e-checklists of one large company's e-system:
The system concerned identified monitors by location and number. It is the location field that controls how the checklist appears on screen and when printed. The list is compiled in alpha order, and this appears to be an unchangeable feature of the system. Thus, if you have monitors on the first, second, third and fourth floors of a building then the checklist will list these in the order; first, fourth, second and third. When you have a site with maybe several hundred monitors, in many different locatioons, possibly on multiple floors, this becomes totally impossible to follow through in any sort of sensible fashion.
As to the suggestion that you should not need to print the paperwork when you have all the information on the screen I can only say get real. It is impossible to audit the inspection history for monitors when you are trying to hold all of that history in your head while flicking through tens of reports. It is bad enough doing this for a single document, or am I the only person whole commonly prints even a medium sized document in preference to reading it on the screen?
I have to say that the more I have to do with these systems the bigger my downer on them becomes, with the most complex system around at the moment being the one that is giving me the biggest downer. |
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blatta
Senior Member
United Kingdom
113 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2006 : 13:51:59
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Adrian, if the system improves the communication then it is also likely to improve the pest control; this is particulalry true on larger sites where there is alot of information to pass on. eg splitting off a large report into 'hygiene' recommendations, 'engineering' recommendations etc.
E reporting still has a long way to go and unless it can combine the benefits it has to offer with the benefits of the normal report systems then there will always be problems. |
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Bar codes
