| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Jonathan Peck
Member
United Kingdom
68 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Feb 2007 : 10:53:40
|
Gentlemen
As a user of both sites, may I be allowed to ask you to stand back and look at what has happened here.
Scotty3968 has asked for information from members of this forum. So far, 457 people have read his request and 19 people have responded (I am the 20th).
Only 2 of the 19 answers were helpful to him, even if they gave information which may have referred him to other sites. 16 replies were of no use to him because they were internal bickering. Without the two answers, he would have got nothing.
The site is only as good as the people using it. Have we been as helpful as we would expect?
Best wishes
Jonathan Peck
Killgerm Group |
 |
|
|
Dusty
Senior Member
Australia
439 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2007 : 11:28:46
|
As someone else has already suggested, perhaps a locked post that give the full run down on what needs to be done to start off as a pest controller.
Locked posts usually are not added to, even by the moderators once posted up.
It would save repeating and also bandwidth.
Of the nine international pest control message boards I read or post on, UK boards are the only ones where absolute raw, uninitiated, wannabe punters can post, asking how to become a pestie.
Don't feed them, get Rid of them |
|
|
|
Gamekeeper
Senior Member
United Kingdom
165 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2007 : 12:35:21
|
Good idea Dusty. You couldn't supply links to the other sites you mentioned could you ?
Fid Def |
|
|
|
NickA
Hyperactive Member
United Kingdom
805 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2007 : 14:51:18
|
You would expect some one looking for information to search the site or look at previous postings.
Pests are smart - We're smarter |
|
|
|
Dusty
Senior Member
Australia
439 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2007 : 20:31:25
|
You may well expect it Nick, but not all are savvy in the ways of the net. Besides, there is a truck load of posts to trawl through, and as Jonathan also pointed out, a **** load of chaff to sift out to get to the wheat.
Don't feed them, get Rid of them |
Edited by - Dusty on 12 Feb 2007 20:32:02 |
|
|
|
NickA
Hyperactive Member
United Kingdom
805 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2007 : 20:39:12
|
 The search facility is your friend, also must have googled to get to this site, so assume some internet savvy? But then the 2 National Associations are listed which is always a good starting point for information.
Jonathan any one who phones or e mails me for information gets it, it may not always be on public show.
Jonathan also notice I posted that retired fire fighters have their own little franchise and that was offered early on in dialogue.
PPS.
Jonathan are you offering help then to your competitors or anyone entering the distribution of pest control products?
Pests are smart - We're smarter |
Edited by - NickA on 13 Feb 2007 08:10:13 |
|
|
|
Jonathan Peck
Member
United Kingdom
68 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2007 : 22:32:59
|
Yes, Nick, provided that they are not competitors. If they trade in areas that we are not involved in, I will gladly help.
We are also happy to help new manufacturers because I believe that it is better that they understand the true position than have unrealistic expectations.
There are many people on the forum who will not be affected by a new entrant because they will be in another area. On another forum, there are people who will help and this even includes people in the same area, as you will know. Surely they are no different to the pest controllers on this forum.
They probably take the view that it is better to have a knowledgeable competitor than one who doesn't know what he is doing and damage the industry reputation through bad work.
Best wishes
Jonathan Peck
Killgerm Group |
|
|
|
nigel
Senior Member
358 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2007 : 07:09:05
|
quote:
Yes, Nick, provided that they are not competitors.
DITO
So it is OK to teach or train others to do the job as long as it cuts the throat of others? |
Edited by - nigel on 15 Feb 2007 07:11:49 |
|
|
|
NickA
Hyperactive Member
United Kingdom
805 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2007 : 09:43:25
|
Jonathan, I agree that the industry needs to be more PROFESSIONAL but I wonder how many other professions fall over to help potential competitors.
I have offered help, equipment to people even local competitors but that is because I'm that type of person, as for them being the same as me on the other fora some definately, but a lot of them !(Keep that opinion to myself)
But it is too easy to enter the Pest Control Industry until we have a proper entry level qualification and career path that every one accepts, Public,Private sector and one that the Suppliers and Distributers adhere to, what chance have we.
At the moment it is too easy for novices to set up with no or minimal qualifications and call themselves Pest Controllers and get supplied. The bar should be set higher.
Pests are smart - We're smarter
LAN,MBI,MA,O.*
* letters after name,May Be Important, Mine Aren't, Obviously. |
|
|
|
Jonathan Peck
Member
United Kingdom
68 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2007 : 11:59:02
|
Nigel,
I understand your comment but I think that it is wrong! If we take your line of reasoning, we are wrong to offer training courses to PCOs because it will enable them to cut the throats of others who are already qualified (and may be our customers). But if the industry stopped training......!
There are always competitors who you respect and can work with. There are others who come into the industry and do it damage by the quality of their work or their approach. Some of them are beyond help but I suspect that they are not the ones who appeal for help on this forum.
Nick,
I don't think that the problem is the entry qualification. I think that the problem is the lack of adequate enforcement of standards. The sale of professional only products to amateurs is a disgrace. Try getting HSE or trading standards to enforce the existing regulations, instead of prosecuting councils for having an old bag of DDT at the back of the store that no one was going to use anyway. When was the last time (or even the first time) that a member was disciplined by their trade association for bad work or purchase of illegal products?
I am not in favour of a police state but I do want to know that the people who ignore the law at the expense of the professionals are going to be prosecuted.
Best wishes
Jonathan Peck
Killgerm Group |
|
|
|
NickA
Hyperactive Member
United Kingdom
805 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2007 : 12:15:31
|
Jonathan, it should be harder to get into look at the myriad of training providers.
ADAS modules, Killgerm Modules, NPTC courses,BASC,Other training providers. Not saying it is wrong but we do need a clearly defined career path with qualifications that are accredited by an independent Association.
If we had a common entry requirement and suppliers etc recognised that qualification isn't that moving forward. Say that people decided not to recognise another suppliers training modules or it isn't up to their standard.
I feel it is down to the BPCA & NPTA to agree certain standards and then the Industry to accept them.
As for enforcement look at the post on explosive, also selling to public and doing shoddy work as Andy B could testify this is the same company. But maybe they fall into not doing good for the industry but the industry supplies them.
His Association wasn't aware of explosion has he been censured!
I've posted before how large companies get away with it, but small companies?
Pests are smart - We're smarter
LAN,MBI,MA,O.*
* letters after name,May Be Important, Mine Aren't, Obviously. |
Edited by - NickA on 15 Feb 2007 12:17:59 |
|
|
|
Dusty
Senior Member
Australia
439 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2007 : 13:22:00
|
What qualifiations are required to offer courses and train operatives?
Who sets the minimum requirement levels to pass these courses? What experience do the level setters have?
It still boils down to the very simple and very sad saga that a body can wake up one morning and announce he/she wants to be a pest controller and "presto", their wish has come true. That is so profoundly wrong!!!
Sadder than that, and heaven forbid, they can (and possibly do) then offer to train others.
Nothing to stop them from setting up a shingle or a web site offering training for a fee. Blind leading the blind
Don't feed them, get Rid of them |
|
|
|
NickA
Hyperactive Member
United Kingdom
805 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2007 : 14:13:51
|
It goes back to what Splatman (Terry) posted if you want to become a nurse or doctor you have to enrol on a training regime. The career path and entry requirements are there for all to see. But pest control!
Thats why a lot of public have a low opinion of us ratcatchers.
Lets become a proper PROFESSION and conduct ourselves as such, a lot of that falls on the distributers who should act together to stamp out the rogues by not supplying them
Pests are smart - We're smarter
LAN,MBI,MA,O.*
* letters after name,May Be Important, Mine Aren't, Obviously. |
|
|
|
ABPest
Senior Member
United Kingdom
197 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2007 : 18:12:28
|
Gosh ! What a lot of hot air
So Nick, Nigel ( Dusty! ) what are you going to do about it all?
It takes more than just putting posts on a forum that are read by a handful of people.
Are you all going to join BPCA and/or NPTA committees and push these changes along ( or do you already belong? ).
You've criticised the UKPCO, but they are trying to improve the status quo, have RSPH Level 2 in Pest control as a minimum entry level, and have adopted CPD ( but you don't like that either! )
Come on guys what are you going to do to bring these changes about?
Adrian ( who isn't trying to be controversial, but would like answers  ) |
|
|
|
NickA
Hyperactive Member
United Kingdom
805 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2007 : 19:23:56
|
Adrian have I criticised UKPCO all I have done is ask questions.
Minimum entry level as long as everyone has it- no grandfather rights. Pest Control has changed over the years.
CPD was an issue that you stopped debating. In principle I agree with continous learning, not happy with it being forced on people by committees.
I converse with people, write, so I do my bit.
Hot air I think not. Genuine concerns definately
People read this forum so maybe concerns will reach a higher audience.
Cannon is investing in training and RSPH minimum qualification so message is getting out.
So Adrian has that gone part way to answer your questions,and stats show that this forum is read by many people. But you don't want to know that do you.
Pests are smart - We're smarter
LAN,MBI,MA,O.*
* letters after name,May Be Important, Mine Aren't, Obviously. |
Edited by - NickA on 15 Feb 2007 19:26:11 |
|
|
|
ABPest
Senior Member
United Kingdom
197 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2007 : 19:48:34
|
No it's not enough Nick.
To change things you have to be fully involved, forum messages, writing letters, yes, I am afraid, hot air. Sorry, my opinion.
I enjoy PCP, wouldn't be here otherwise. BUT, " Stats " ????? PCP has 356 members, of those 200 have made posts. Not exactly earth shattering. And this is NOT a critiscism of PCP. Who are those members are they leaders of the industry who can sponser change. I don't know!
These are the reasons I joined UKPCO. We are moving along nicely at a nice pace, with still lots to achieve, but we are talking to other organisations, and some are listening. Too early to state what is going to happen ( watch this space, as they say ).
CPD, nothing more to say. I support it and believe in it. Nothing wrong with making it compulsory, if you want to see the industry improve.
No Nick, it's not enough, get on those committees and make them see the light.
Nothing wrong with the message you are promoting, but forums are not the way forward.
And with regard to professionalism, whats all that crap after your name supposed to indicate. Start promoting that professionalism now.
Gauntlet thrown down
Adrian.
PS which one was me in that photo |
|
|
|
nigel
Senior Member
358 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2007 : 21:56:47
|
Maybe one reason some are in favour of CPD can be seen in this snippet of an e-mail I recieved on the 3 March 2006;
quote:
Nigel we need to meet up at sometime, I have been asked to put together a team of trainers and to prepare the syllabus for the training of pest controllers at all levels from the farmer to the advanced tech.
It would appear that there may be some who stand to benifit financially if CPD is made compulsary.
I have a very good idea who has asked for some to do this as well as being made aware of who is involved.
Why would I want to train potential customers? Yes I would in the short term benifit from this financially but how many of you out there would loose a lot of income from people like me doing something like this?
And who actually benifits from customers doing their own pest control?
Care about the industry? yeah right you do. |
|
|
|
NickA
Hyperactive Member
United Kingdom
805 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2007 : 22:15:12
|
Seems some one has yanked Adrians chain.
What you get up to is up to you.If you feel you represent the Industry fine. If you have been conditioned to accept CPD Fine. That is your right. But CPD even in the CIEH was trialed by committee no vote by members then after considerable expense voted on like most associations/organisations.
I think for myself, I'm not following other people. I have nothing to gain by opposing or supporting UK.
But I'm the one being accused or criticised you yourself describe me as a detracter because I don't want to join UKPCO. There is your way and only your way.
When you don't like what you read. "My last words on this subject" or similar is how you finish.
My letters say it all really, I try and help, what happens, I get called names etc nothing happens even one of the moderaters doesn't moderate. Notice your private area busy.
But if you wish to debate in public go for it, but you won't like what I'll post.
Pests are smart - We're smarter
LAN,MBI,MA,O.*
* letters after name,May Be Important, Mine Aren't, Obviously. |
|
|
|
ABPest
Senior Member
United Kingdom
197 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2007 : 22:20:14
|
Sorry, I must be dim, but I can't see the point you are making re: CPD and the quote.
And in any case I find it relatively easy to maintain my CPD with CIEH ( 20 hours per annuum )and at little cost. Having been involved with CPD for many years, I do not fear it, and I just wonder why some are so against it?
CPD is more than just about sitting on expensive training courses. But as I have repeatedly stated, all professions have CPD in some form or other, and you wish pest control to be considered a " profession ". Work it out for yourselves!
Let me ask you Nigel, Nick and Dusty, how did you get into pest control. Did you all seek higher pest control qualifications first,or did you start in pest control with no qualifications in pest control, then take qualifications? Did you start with trial and error, did any one advise/help you? Or were you experts to start with?
Apologies for mentioning UKPCO again, but we have recently given advice to a couple of people who wished to become pesties, one certainly saw the light of day and realised it was at present a none starter.
Recently a new pestie sold all his gear on eBay, because he couldn't make a go of it. Giving people genuine advice does not mean the end of the world.
Adrian. |
|
|
|
ABPest
Senior Member
United Kingdom
197 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2007 : 22:25:51
|
Sorry Nick, I usually state I am not posting any more in response to posts such as your last one. I cannot see any point trying to make sensible contribution. So it's good night from him....
Adrian. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
GETTING INTO PEST CONTROL
Topic Locked
