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NickA
Hyperactive Member
United Kingdom
805 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Feb 2007 : 22:43:56
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 In previous posts I have mentioned how I started in Pest Control back in the 70's.
Forestry Commission. Warreners course(though it was more wildlife Ranger),So courses on Squirrels, rabbits, rats, deer etc. As well as PA 1 & 6. Shooting/ keepering various Game Conservancy courses (paid by me), Took RSPH BEFORE I started my company or moved into Domestic Pest Control, Advanced, various courses Network,ADAS, Killgerm etc. Uni Course and LowLand Deer Management at Cirencester in 2003 Nearly all paid for by me again.So yes I had and took qualifications, more importantly took training to achieve it.
PA1 & 6 re tested couple of years ago.
A world wide group of colleagues to ask and answer questions.
Adrian your not the only one giving advice to people so it is not a stranglehold by UKPCO.
Pests are smart - We're smarter
LAN,MBI,MA,O.*
* letters after name,May Be Important, Mine Aren't, Obviously. |
Edited by - NickA on 15 Feb 2007 22:45:58 |
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Dusty
Senior Member
Australia
439 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2007 : 03:58:10
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No Adrian, I was actually a professional electical engineer. I purchased the pest control business I now operate. I received training before I was capable, or permitted to kill one solitary bug.
I had to obtain a licence. That is a LICENCE Adrain, issued by the state of NSW, and NSW is a Government. We willingly obtain licences at a reasonable cost by providing documented proof of our training,qualifications and experience, and it assists to weed out the dopes, the crooks and the incompetent.
I had, and still have a very old mentor should I wish to confer with.
I am a qualified teacher, and in the past have taught pest control as well as trained pest controllers for my own and the business of others. I guess if I was a builder, that would make me a Master Builder.
My qualifications to teach and train are formal.It concerns me that there are some in UK who profess to train who have no qualifications or training. What criteria do they use to train? Does it differ from the training offered by others providing similar courses? What is in place to ensure every one is providing training to at least an acceptable standard?
Adrian, as far as UK is concerned, I am not doing anything, but I do willingly explain what and how we do it in Australia. From an outsider's persepective, UK desperately needs the Government to licence pest controllers.
CPD? No problem there. We all need refresher courses, we all need to attend seminars and trade display days and we need to mingle with other pest controllers. Providing exclusivity to issuers of CPD (for a fee and then charging incredibly expensive amounts to attend courses that offer CPD points), I do object to.
Watch the UPMA board over the next few months to see how bonifide, certificate carrying, fully licenced, trainers and qualified teachers are able to offer discounted training for all Australian trainee pest controllers. That is what pest control forums can do.
We have representatives from the Insurance Industry on our boards, and almost every pesticide manufacturer and supplier has at least one UPMA member.
Both our national bodies have people who report back about matters discussed on our board, as does UKPCO, PTC, IPCO and even the mighty NPMA.
Don't feed them, get Rid of them |
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nigel
Senior Member
358 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2007 : 07:29:02
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Me, I learnt the job first, then got my qualifications thanks to the tax payer, by the age of 14 I was already a skilled mole trapper, was already working ferrets, already doing pigeon control, rat and mouse control and trapping squirrels. As a child I used to make my pocket money during the school holidays, finding wasp nests in fields and on the river banks, then treat them and return next day to dig them up and sell them to fishermen.
I already consider myself a professional Adrian because I sort out the mess left behind by others and have been doing that for years. You would be alarmed at how much pest control is carried out each year totally uneccessarily just because it makes companies money or because well trained (!) individuals just can not be honest with customers and, either, because they are not as well trained as you think they are or in some cases I have seen just defruading customers.
I am one of the few pesties who will tell you that in this day and age, there is no reason why any customer should have rats, but then again I am not tied to people who have a vested interest in selling products.
Andy will tell you, I personally have no gripe with the UKPCO, in a way I am glad that you have a place to go and get information and advice, something we did not have when I was learning the trade, you had to work it out for yourself. But it is not for me and no offence guys, but looking in from time to time and reading posts and the type of questions being asked, there are plenty who need such a place and at times it does appear to be like sheep all following each other rather than figuring out what works for yourself.
But having been on many courses and knowing what I know now, I can tell you, you will not learn what you need to know from them, may be this is because many courses are now run by those with a vested interest in selling you novel baits or equipment you really do not need to do the job.
Last year I was having a chat with a highly skillled pestie and I asked him why he, himself had not been snapped up by those that provided training to teach the likes of you. He claims that it is felt he is good enough to train the tutors but they do not want him to train you or I, WHY? |
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nigel
Senior Member
358 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2007 : 07:33:40
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Personally, I would rather spend my time trying to make more work become available to both myself and others in the industry, rather than put more requirements on us to operate.
Thats why I do not teach potential customers how to do the job such as farmers and gamekeepers for instance, I would rather they came to the industry and got professional help. |
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NickA
Hyperactive Member
United Kingdom
805 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2007 : 08:33:25
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Doing things Adrian, appearing on TV ,Radio through my own contacts not via Associations or help from major suppliers. Having a couple of articles printed for local press. Yes I'm doing my bit.
But Adrian the obdurate your previous employment still clouds your thinking.Your not a council official any more, so part the curtains and look out.
You have a lot to offer,but as a trainer to non council folk?
Pests are smart - We're smarter
LAN,MBI,MA,O.*
* letters after name,May Be Important, Mine Aren't, Obviously. |
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Dusty
Senior Member
Australia
439 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2007 : 10:04:36
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Thinking about it Nigel, I was a pestie at age 8. I was setting traps (steel jaws in those days) and ferreting for pocket money every winters' afternoon and weekend.
I can recall getting a pound per pound, and at 6 to 7 skins to the pound I was making several pounds per night, and by golly did I think I was rich lol.
Don't feed them, get Rid of them - visit us on www.ridpest.com.au |
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nigel
Senior Member
358 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2007 : 11:02:06
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Same with mole skins Dusty, when I could sell them as a kid, I would go out down the river just to set traps. You could earn more selling the skins than trapping the moles for people.
But, did I not sugest to some that if they wanted to learn how to do it, go out in your free time and learn at your own leasure. If memmory serves me well I was slated for sugesting that.
Now I went to bed all relaxed and calm, thinking about CPD last night.
5 o'clock this morning I woke up with an idea on how to improve the barrel mole trap, so that people like Adrian can improve their catch rate. The idea is simplisity in itself and why no one has come up with it before (me included) beggars belief.
If I get time over the weekend I shall modify a trap and try it out next week.
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ABPest
Senior Member
United Kingdom
197 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2007 : 11:08:25
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By golly, I was reading these posts and was mightily impressed. Just each persons history nicely placed on the forum.
Then I got to Nick's last post and there was the personal dig again. Then I visited VPM and saw the personal digs at Merlin again, and it made me realise that qualifications the man do not maketh !
Do all those qualifications make you a better pest controller? Does licensing make you a better pest controller? The answer is no, only partially goes towards becoming a good pest controller, as with other professions.
Dusty, licensing in Oz may work, do you have it nationally? Oz is different to UK, so what is good for you may be different for us. I support licensing to some degree, but do not see it as the be all and end all!
I raised my issues with Nick because he has some good ideas, he rightly exposes some of the problems with the UK pest industry, we have spoken about these issues. Sadly the way Nick approaches these issues means his intended audience does not listen.
When UKPCO set up, Nick went on record to state that we should not be setting up some thing new to change the industry, but we should be working through the existing organisations to seek this change, I do not see Nick doing this.
Putting posts on PCP moaning about virtually all apsects of the pest control industry is meaningless, like wise TV/radio appearances ( been there got the T-shirt ). Who actually listens? How many people visit this forum and never return? How many people actually make regular posts on here. I personally see this forum as the Nick/Dusty/Nigel ( and a couple of others ) forum, not Phil's! And I think this is why knowledgeable critiscism is shot down.
Nick made an erroneous statement, Merlin corrected him, this statement is widely believed in UK pest control circles. Dusty almost censored Nick, but not quite when he said " we all know what Nick meant " Merlin was verbally ( in writing ) abused and is still being abused on VPM. So much for the professionalism that you allegedly promote. Obviously all the training courses did not address this aspect.
I personally admire Nick for what he has put himself through, I admire his knowledge and his desire to change the industry for the better. But his methods leave a lot to be desired. Sensible arguments end up in abuse. Just read the last few postings/subjects. Why do I occasionally state it is my last post? Because threads have to end some where, because Nick always has to have the final word, and most importantly because those final posts say a hell of lot more about the posters than I ever could.
You wish to promote professionalism, well it really does start at home. Nick take away those letters from after your name, don't you realise how sily they make you look? Accept critiscism when it it is due, don't try and belittle the message carrier.
Stop the constant digs at any one who dares to disagree with you.
From this point on actually promote professionalism. You may then find people are more receptive to what you are trying to achieve.
Tirade over, I now sit back with bated breath and await professional replies !
Adrian. |
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nigel
Senior Member
358 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2007 : 13:34:12
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If we read back through your own postings on the UKPCO forum Adrian, you make a point of explaining that you are not an expert, in fact you do seem to reiterate this on every other post it would seem. And sadly I would have to agree with you.
Yet you seem to think you are expert enough to decide what the industry needs in the way of training?
Is this to make up for your own short comings I ask myself?
When you feel you have become expert enough at actually doing the work, then decide what the short comings of the training we recieve are and address them. Just because you have not learnt to do the job does not mean others have not and this is potentially what may be getting up some peoples noses.
I am sure customers do want highly skilled pesties who, when they come to deal with their problems, are competant enough to address not only the infestation itself but also the reasons why they are infested, so that they the customer do not find themselves reinfested in 6 months time.
Yet sadly there are far to many pesties who have learnt that if they tell customers the truth they will actually loose money, so do not. No ammount of training is going to stop that I am afraid.
There are people already out there capable of stopping customers problems once and for all but if customers are going to continue to support poor services that are supplied by councils or a company because they are cheap, well they deserve the service they get I am afraid and no ammount of training will stop that either.
Here is something to consider, rather than looking at how to impose more requirements on the industry, look at ways of showing and informing customers how to see what the level of service is they are recieving, if they find they are getting lumbered with long term high costing contracts to their problems rather than solutions, get them to stop employing that company. You will do far better for the industry and customers by doing this.
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ABPest
Senior Member
United Kingdom
197 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2007 : 14:32:31
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OK Nigel, you are the expert.
What are my views on training?
Bated breath is choking me!
Adrian. |
Edited by - ABPest on 16 Feb 2007 14:32:59 |
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ABPest
Senior Member
United Kingdom
197 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2007 : 14:55:26
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Oh, and another thing Nigel. You are pefectly correct. I do not consider myself an expert on any thing, only a fool does that!
I can take a mini apart and rebuild it, I can catch fish, I hit what I shoot, I am in control most of the time in pest control, very occasionally the pest beats me. I love music, but cannot play an instrument, I know a lot about the products of Meccano. I enjoy gardening, sometimes I enjoy decorating.
But I am not an expert!
I know my limitations, do you Nigel?
Have you ever been in a court of law? There is usually an expert witness for the prosecution and one for the defence. Which expert is correct ?
Are you an expert Nigel? |
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Simmo
Junior Member
28 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2007 : 17:36:59
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| Am I the only one to think this or is it all a bit bloody boring?? |
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ABPest
Senior Member
United Kingdom
197 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2007 : 18:02:35
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No John, you are not on your own!
But it's better than watching paint dry....just!
Adrian.
PS I'm decorating the hallway, landing and staircase. |
Edited by - ABPest on 16 Feb 2007 18:05:06 |
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Iain
Moderator
United Kingdom
224 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2007 : 19:36:31
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I'll second that Simmo.
It's got a long way off the question raised by Scotty3968 back on the 8th January.
Did anyone answer his question? |
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blatta
Senior Member
United Kingdom
134 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2007 : 19:47:16
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Was there a question?
Adrian,
Heads....parapets..... have we been here before?
I don't think this posting is going anywhere gentlemen.
Bets on who will have the last word though, I think it should be me, right n |
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Dusty
Senior Member
Australia
439 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2007 : 21:24:33
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Iain, you have the power of veto, and the thread should be capable of being locked. You also have the power to call posters to heel for attacking others, but I dont see any of that happening.
Being an outsider/foreigner, I tend to see both sides to the debate that flares up, although my view may be somewhat jaundiced as I dont like to see anyone attacked for not sharing the common view, no matter who that person may be. Now it seems to be Nigel being castigated. As far as giving purely pest control advice, Nigel is always there to express an opinion. Some others should ask themselves why they dont also give the benefit of their experience.
Don't feed them, get Rid of them - visit us on www.ridpest.com.au |
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Iain
Moderator
United Kingdom
224 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2007 : 08:59:25
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Tomorrow I'm off to our first home game and I will no doubt indulge myself by 'advising' the referee!
They say that you don't notice a good referee, as the game isn't being constantly interupted by the whistle. That's how I would like to think I moderate - with a light touch.
If I was to be more direct, I'm sure that there would be a chorus of disapproval, with shouts of "you're stifling free speech!", "rights of reply" and so on. I'm sure most people would prefer the debate to flow. We all remember what happened to the late BPCA Forum.
But, yes, sometimes people do go a bit over the top and state their points of view a little too vigorously - and others do take opposing views a bit too personally.
Certainly in recent strings I have winced at what some people have said - but mainly along the lines of "oh no, can't you see what an ass you're making of yourself!"
If anyone finds anything that has been said has gone over the line, then they can complain to me or any of the other Mods. Words in ears can be said - the Editor once rapped my knuckles, in private - and in extreme situations, strings can be locked.
But let's not stifle debate. We welcome everyone who is courageous enough to state their opinions in public.
Aha - the hooter has gone and I shall blow the whistle at the next breakdown in play. If you feel that we Mods haven't got the right balance, then say so - perhaps on a new thread.
This thread is now locked.
Peep peep peep.  |
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GETTING INTO PEST CONTROL
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